From the monthly archives:

November 2004

Before we can ask what is “limited atonment” in todays’ climate of doubt regarding our theories of the atonement, including accusing people like me of propounding a theory of cosmic child abuse we need to start by defining the very idea of the atonement before moving to whether it is limited or not.

The atonement is simply another word for Christs death, bit it is a word that links his death to the removal of sin in the way that has been classically understood- the removal of sin. The penal substitutionary view of the atonement simply means that Jesus died to take a punishment or penalty (ie penal) he died to substitute himself (ie to take out place) and he died to bear the wrath of God.

God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself….For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.? (2 Cor 5:19,21)

Why did Christ need to become sin? So he could justly be punished for sin. Why was that necessary? Because it was the only way that God could be right to let us off the hook.

For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Everyone has sinned. Romans 1 makes it clear that God really does have wrath against sin, and I for one cannot accept this notion some people have that he can simply pretend it never happened!

God does freely give us a gift but this passage makes clear that this gift came at a cost – everyone who has had to “redeem” a loan knows that this word “redemption” is to do with cost. What is the cost? It is a propitiation which can be translated a turning away of wrath.

God shows that he doesnt simply pass over sins, but does something about them. He shows that he is not like the unjust judge who lets everyone off declaring them not guilty when they are guilty.

The only way this passage makes sense is that sin has a penalty to pay, a consequence if you like. That God cannot be holy and overlook this, and that somehow in Jesus death that penalty is taken away.

To me that is not cosmic child abuse it is the gospel. I am concinced that you have very little that can be called Christianity left if you rob God of his justice by denying the idea that Jesus took the consequences of my sin on the cross.

Now I have that off my chest, what does it mean “limited atonement”

Well lets say what I believe it doesn’t mean

-It DOESN’T mean that Jesus death was not sufficiently powerful that everyone could have been saved
-It doesnt nullify the gospel offer that “as many as will” repent will be saved.
-It doesnt mean that some people are damned from before time began simply because God didn’t like them
-It doesnt mean we should only preach to people we believe are “elect”
-It doesn’t mean that Jsus death had no value to unbelievers. The fact that God can be patient with sin and still be just is because of Jesus death. The fact that God can graciously keep sinners alive and during their time on earth they can enjoy anything in life is a mark of the “general” grace of God also bought by Jesus’ death on the cross.

My view of the limited atonement is that it was sufficient for all, but not efficient for all. In other words that whilst it is probably OK to say that Jseus died for the sins of the whole world, in another sense he died particularly for me, and knew that it was for me that he was going through this. Jesus death was not in vain, and could never have been in vain. God would make sure of that.

In one sense limited atonement is the easiest of the TULIPs to accept if we simply take it to mean that although Jesus death could have saved everyone, it in fact will not. If you don’t believe this, then you are a universalist. Limited atonement really only says that Jesus blood is not applied to every person who has ever lived.

“We have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.” (1 Tim 4:10)

Gmail never took off for me so far, but we will see I may get to it at some point (I was offered a Gmail address due to my blogging, but have never really tried it out)

Some other things have been quietly happening, however, over at google that is possibly of even greated significance than their foray into email (after all there are other web-based email systems!). In fact, the tools described here are probably every bloggers dream, and run the risk of tempting us all into instapundit like posting activity. With these search tools you can find anything and quickly turn it into a post.

Google have quietly developed Google Scholar. This is nothing short of awesome, being a view of the authoritive sources of information on the website as well as pointing you to articles and books off site. It will find theological articles and medical journal paper abstracts but you don’t have to tell it that is what you want. Throw any query into the box and you should have published (and where relevant peer-reviewed) and relevant information that will make anyone who’s ever had to wade through irrelevant search results whilst writing an important report or essay weep. It just has to be tried out- give it a whirl!

They have also developed google desktop search which makes the contents of your PC as accessible as information on the web. You will be amazed at the gems that you have lurking in the recesses of a creaking file system that seemed like a good idea at the time.

These two resources will make you want to download and install Google deskbar for sure. It puts a google search box into the bottom right hand corner of your screen, allowing far easier access to google than even a toolbar can give. You can search without a browser then copy and paste results into other documents. It means that as I write something in my wordprocessor, I can simply hit shift and the arrow key to select a word, press CTRL-G (I changed it from the default ctrl-alt-del) then my choice of enter for a normal Google search, CTRL-H for a home PC search, ctrl-s for a scholar search, CTRL-I for a Google images search, ctrl-t and d for a thesauras and dictionary respectively, not to mention CTRL-N for a Google news search. I have added many others including possibly the best website of them all- the BBC which includes the archives of the BBC TV programmes, current news and its own proprietary search engine.

The results pop out of the start bar in a window that stuff can be selected, and dragged out of. I have changed the default of this so that it doesn’t close automatically but that if I hit F1 it will hide itself or pop back up- great for writing those articles.

To get the thing really cooking you have to do a couple of bits of set up yourself.

Firstly, install the google desktop search, don’t worry about the generation of an index although it said it would take hours it surely didn’t seem to on mine and worse case scenario you can always leave it on overnight. You may want to adjust the performance slightly- I told it to display the results in a miniviewer, follow links within the viewer, and not to close it automatically

Then, install the Google deskbar and change the default behaviour as discussed above. Finally, add some customised searches by clicking options-customised searches-add. I have added a couple of examples below



1. Home PC (CTRL-H) http://127.0.0.1:4664/search&s=1361950610?q={1}&ie=UTF-8&btnG=Search+Desktop

2. Google scholar (CTRL-S)

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q={1}

I have also added

3. Ask Jeeves (CTRL-J)

http://web.ask.com/web?q={1}&qsrc=0&o=0

4. Yahoo (Ctrl-Y)

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p={1}

5. Streetmap (UK postcode or place) (CTRL-M)

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newsearch.srf?name={1}

6. BBC (includes news and web) (CTRL-B)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/search/results.pl?q={1}

7. The Bible (ESV) (CTRL-E) One of the most accurate bible translations available allowing you to search for a biblical reference or to search for phrases or words in the bible.

http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q={1}

7. Amazon’s search inside our books (CTRL-L) perhaps the worlds largest digital library of real books. You will probably have had to register/login with Amazon.com to make this one work

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index%3Dstripbooks%26field-keywords%3D{1}

8. Blogpulse (CTRL-P) Search the new media and find out what the blogs are saying right now about a subject

http://www.blogpulse.com/search?query={1}

9. Newsnow (CTRL-O) Search the Old Media with websites- which is now most of them and find out what the papers are saying

http://www.newsnow.co.uk/newsfeed/?search={1}

So now you can find it even more easy to get blogging. Why not give it a go, and if you like it link back to this post, tell us about it here and add any other search engines you like in the comments section after you have got them working with the google deskbar.

One last thing, I have figured out a way to link each post to the Blogpulse conversation monitor, which gives us another way of seeing who’s linking to our posts without any effort needed via trackback etc- give it a whirl!



Cosmic child abuse

November 28, 2004

UPDATE November 2008- Steve Chalke has expressed his views more fully in a chapter in The Atonement Debate, and I have posted a response to this.
Following my discussion of the Steve Chalke controversy I have been examining this theory of the cross being “cosmic child abuse”. It is not unique to Chalke and more [...]

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Off to New Orleans

November 27, 2004

Earlier this year I had to go to New York on business. One of the best bits was meeting three bloggers (one of whom was travelling to America on business from Malaysia.) Happy Husband, vessel of honor and Messy Christian were the three bloggers. Happy husband recently spoke about how greatful he [...]

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Blogging for Iraq – whatever your views on the war

November 27, 2004

This holiday season, what are you thankful for?
Are you thankful that you are alive ? That you live in a free democratic nation? That the soil of your nation hasn’t known war in your lifetime? That you have work? A family?
Or maybe you are thankful for blogging and the outlet it gives you for those [...]

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More on Unconditional election, "double predestination" and the wills of God and man

November 25, 2004

JOLLYBLOGGER has now posted on Unconditional Election, which he posted after my own post on the same subject.
As usual he does a great job- a much better one than I- but as is my want I will once again be slightly nit-picking. This is not so much because I think he and I really differ [...]

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Human Responsibility or "free will" and Romans 7

November 25, 2004

I hadnt realised just how much discussion around the blogosphere has been generated on the “Free will” issue.
The view from the pew explains and gives theological names to the different opinions on free will. The position he describes that is closest to my own he calls compatibilistic free will.. On the [...]

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U – Unconditional Election (Five Points of Calvinism, Part 2)

November 23, 2004

I hope David will forgive me but I am going to be very naughty and jump ahead of him on my uninvited tagging allong on his TULIP series. I will not do as good a job of explaining this as he will, but we do seem to spark off each other quite well. Consider [...]

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Steve Chalke and “The Lost Message of Jesus”

November 21, 2004

UPDATE November 2008- Steve Chalke has expressed his views more fully in a chapter in The Atonement Debate, and I have posted a response to this.
UPDATE #2In January 2008, the following post was identified as the 5th all-time most popular post with readers of this blog. The 6th most-read post featured highlights and reflections of [...]

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2004 Weblog Awards

November 21, 2004

Nominations are open for the 2004 Weblog Awards

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Bush Frees Secret Service Agent from Chile Guards

November 21, 2004

Perhaps those accusations about his military record during the campaign hurt more than Bush let on. This was maybe a chance to show that he had courage. It may have been slightly silly also, but does make a good story- the leader of the free world rescues his bodyguard! Yahoo! has pictures.

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The only truly free will in the universe

November 21, 2004

Further to my previous posts on free will, I have been reminded of this passage in the bible. It concerns me that some Christians almost seem to dethrone God and enthrone man by their stress on God’s inability to know the future or to act as he chooses. This passage reminds us just [...]

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More on Free Will

November 20, 2004

Perhaps I overstated slightly it in my previous post on this subject when I said there was no such thing as free will. But in struggling to find words to express what I am trying to say, as ever the theologians help, so here goes with some quotes which might clarify my position.
R.C.Sproul said [...]

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Theres no such thing as "Free Will"

November 20, 2004

JOLLYBLOGGER has continued his series on Calvinism, which I am tagging along with by saying “We Calvinists affirm that man has a free will. “. He then goes on to circumscribe the limits that our will is put under in the rest of the post. So which is it David, are our wills [...]

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