From the monthly archives:

October 2006

Earlier this year I was asked by a reader to describe my experience of the charismatic gifts. I am now almost finished with this series, and am also reviewing some useful resources for those wanting to find out more about the charismatic.

I have spent more than thirty years of my life in charismatic churches, and these reflections try to summarize that experience. This particular series is not an attempt to justify the continuation of the gifts theologically – I have done that

elsewhere and in my debate with Dan Phillips. Nor is this post intended to persuade you – I want you to be persuaded by the Bible, not mere experience!

Instead, here I want to simply answer the question, “What do the gifts look like in practice in places that claim they exist today?” I did, however, begin the series by looking at the context of 1 Corinthians 12 in five posts (1, 2, 3, 4, 5).

To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. To one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.” 1 Corinthians 12:7-11

My dear blogging friend, Tim Challies, is writing a book on discernment. There is clearly an important aspect to discernment that involves examining the Scriptures and learning the truth which they contain. There is then a comparison of that truth with what individual people say. This post will not address these important aspects of discernment. The verse makes it clear that there is a spiritual gift of discerning (or distinguishing) spirits. Like prophecy, this gift needs to be fed by our knowledge of the Scriptures, and will be richer, more developed, and less likely to err in people who are well educated biblically.

There is, however, in mature Christians who have this gift, a growing ability to simply “sense” that something (or rather someone) is not quite right. People often describe “just knowing” or even simply “seeing” that someone is, in some way, “not right.” This feeling can be more specific – so, for example, I have heard many reports of people who met other Christians and somehow simply “knew” that the other person was a Christian just by looking at them – and no, they weren’t carrying a Bible! There is a meeting of spirits that seems to sometimes happen that makes you recognize each other. Equally there can be a strong sense of danger or even a specific warning when meeting people.
Incidentally, have you ever noticed how someone’s eyes are the window to their soul, as Jesus says? Many Christians who have been Christians for a long time have a gleam in their eyes that tells you they are saved – it is hard to explain or define, but it is there. Some who operate in discernment will tell you that when they look into the eyes of a person, they can suddenly “see” things about them, or at least get a sense that says “this one is godly” or “beware of this one.”
This gift can be very helpful for the Christian leader seeking to bring others into some form of ministry. A sense of “warning” about someone can help prevent certain actions which might later prove to have been very wise. Some would go so far as to say that someone without this gift in a significant way should not be a church leader.
Those who operate in this gift are also sometimes used in deliverance ministry. The ability to see the root of a problem can be very helpful to them in their prayer ministry. Hours of “digging and delving” can be avoided in a moment of spiritual insight and wisdom.
Distinguishing the spirits also applies to leading church meetings and leading churches through the differnet seasons of their lives. There is no doubt that some leaders seem particularly able to tell how their poeple are feeling about something even before they go and ask them. Leadership then comes easily to these people as sensing where people are is the first step to being able to then begin to lead them to the place where God wants them to be.
It is hard to define or describe this gift – but it certainly seems a very useful one indeed!
Since it has been over a month since my last MLJ post, I will briefly review my previous posts in this series. As I have already indicated, the doctor’s teaching on the subject of the Holy Spirit is that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is distinct from conversion. MLJ then discusses three Scripture verses that are commonly used by cessationists to refute this belief: Luke 11:13; Acts 2:37-39; and 1 Corinthians 12:13.

In part 1, the Doctor outlined two principles. The first principle was that those who are going to ask the Father for the Holy Spirit are those who know they are His children and address Him as their heavenly Father. The second principle was that the text implies a kind of gradation of asking, seeking, and knocking that signifies seeking for, a striving after this gift of the Holy Spirit.

In part 2, the Doctor argued that the gift (or baptism) of the Holy Spirit is promised, but simply because it is promised does not automatically mean it is given to everyone. Rather, the promise is a general one accompanied by conditions; in other words, as Christians we become candidates for these promises.

In part 3, in MLJ shows how the Corinthians text does not, in fact, deal with the baptism of the Holy Spirit at all. He explores the Greek meaning of the word en in this text and contrasts its grammatical implications with the use of the word en in other New Testament texts. He concludes that this kind of verb is not found in other passages in which it is used, and therefore rendering “baptized by means of the spirit” is correct for the Corinthians passage, but not correct for the other texts.

“For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit.” 1 Cor 12:13 (ESV)

“For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body . . . and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.” (KJV)
Today, in the final post in this series, Lloyd-Jones will explain a second reason why he believes that 1 Corinthians 12:13 does not deal with the doctrine of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and therefore is a verse used inappropriately by cessationists to argue their position.

“But there are other reasons, quite apart from grammar, which make this perfectly plain and clear. In every reference to baptism with the Spirit, the Baptizer is the Lord Jesus Christ, and what he does when he baptizes with the Spirit is what we have seen. It is a baptism to give power, to create witnesses, to enable us to testify. ‘Tarry,’ he says, ‘at Jerusalem until ye shall have received power.’ The whole object, as we have seen so abundantly, of the baptism with the Spirit, is to give us such an assurance and to fill us with such power that we become living witnesses and testifiers to the truth as it is in Christ Jesus; we become his witnesses. That is the purpose of the baptism with the Spirit and it is a baptism that is done by the Lord Jesus Christ.”

MLJ then shows how the apostle in the 1 Corinthians text is, in his view, “dealing with something entirely different.” He believes that the emphasis here is on the unity of the believers in one body of Christ.

“Then he goes on. Listen, he says, I have got an illustration. ‘As the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.’ He says it is because by one Spirit we have all been baptized into one body of Christ, whether we are Jews, or Gentiles; and we have all been made to drink into the one and only Spirit. He is continuing with the activity of the Spirit, and that is why, undoubtedly, these Authorized translators and all the others, apart from the Revised Version, have deliberately translated this with ‘by’ — ‘ . . . by the Spirit’.

It is a continuation of his account of the action and the activity of the Holy Spirit, and what he is talking about here is not power, it is not witness; he is here reminding them that every Christian is one who is born again. That is true of all Christians . . . it is the Holy Spirit acting in regeneration.

But the Holy Spirit at the moment of regeneration also takes each person who is regenerated and puts him into the body of Christ—places and introduces him into it. That is the force and the meaning of the word. And what he is saying here, therefore, is this: Now the Spirit who has given you these different gifts, the same Spirit also has taken every one of you and put you into the body of Christ, so that you must never think of yourselves as separate units. He is reinforcing his main and general argument. It is no part of his concern here to deal with the doctrine of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The illustration is simply to show that all Christians, whether they were Jews or Gentiles . . . are now ‘one in Christ Jesus’ . . . And that, he says, is the action and the work of the Holy Spirit.

Now you see the contrast; it is the Lord himself who baptizes us ‘with’ the Spirit, but it is nowhere taught in the Scripture that the Lord engrafts us into his own body. No, that is the work of the Spirit. His work is to regenerate us, to engraft us into Christ, to place us in him to ‘baptize’ us if you like into the body. All along, this is the activity of the Spirit. It is the Spirit who applies salvation to us right the way through, and that is true of every Christian . . .

[This verse] has no reference whatsoever to the doctrine of the baptism with the Spirit or the blessing which comes to those who have been baptized with the Spirit. So this verse, which some people seem to think is crucial, not only does not contradict what we have been saying, but tends to prove it, and that to the very hilt, because we have seen so clearly and in so many different places that there are people described in Acts who have believed and have been baptized, but still the apostles had to lay their hands upon them before they received the gift of the Holy Spirit. They were already regenerate, as the apostles themselves were before the day of Pentecost, but they had not been baptized with the Holy Spirit.”

You may not agree with Martyn Lloyd-Jones’ interpretation of this verse, but I think it is worthwhile repeating it here. The theological debates about what you should call an experience of the Holy Spirit should not, in my view, remove the absolute necessity that we recognise the reality of two clearly distinct works of the Spirit. Some would argue that Paul means in the first clause here to describe the same event as baptism with the Spirit, others that he does indeed mean something different. In either case, we should not jump to the conclusion that there is therefore no second experience to seek for.

I should point out the consideration that Paul’s use of the word “all” here in no way means that every Christian has to have the experience described – for we know that the biblical use of the word “all” is not always as clear-cut as we in English tend to understand. But even if we do come to the conclusion that “all” really is “all” here, then there are still two further points to make.

The first is that just because “all” of Paul’s original readers experienced an event does not mean necessarily that we all have also exeperienced that same event. It is quite possible that a normal part of the conversion process – the conscious receiving of the Spirit – might have in some way been lost and needs reclaiming without these words being in any sense untrue.

The second point is that ultimately this can become an argument of terminology. One thing on which few commentators seem to focus when considering this verse is that the second half actually seems to speak of a different event. So, far from being a proof verse against a second experience of the Spirit, in this verse we have Paul telling us that his readers had both been baptised “by” the Spirit into Christ’s body and had been given this same Spirit to “drink.” You don’t need to drink the Spirit in order for Him to add you to Christ’s body!

I remain convinced that the balance of Scripture teaches us that there is a secret act of the Spirit in regenerating us and joining us to Christ of which we may not be aware save for its effects in us. Many a believer feels that the faith he now feels is his own – little does he know that it has been produced in him by the Spirit, that a rebirth has happened. If you want to call that event the baptism with the Spirit, then at least recognise that it is an event that is centred on joining the believer to the body of Christ.

Believers are, however, to desire and expect that we might “drink” of the Spirit or “receive” him. This event is something that we will recognise when it happens. I do not believe it is a once-for-all event. We are to keep coming back for more drink! We are to desire and savour the Spirit and yearn for more conscious awareness of Him as a person who is at work in every believer. What is the difference between the Spirit-filled believer and the one who when asked, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” would have a similar answer to the Ephesians in Acts 19:2? Is it that the Spirit is not working in the latter? Absolutely not. The Spirit is at work in every believer. It is simply that the one who is “full” of the Spirit, who has drunk of the Spirit – who has received the Spirit, is one who has a vivid experience of the third person of the Trinity as a reality in their lives.

If that experience is not true of you, then I pray that it will become so soon!


All emphasis mine.

Excerpts from this post were taken from:

D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones, Joy Unspeakable – The Baptism and Gifts of the Holy Spirit, Christopher Catherwood, Ed., Combined edition of Joy Unspeakable (1984) and Prove All Things (1985), Kingsway Publications, Eastbourne, England, 1995, “Something Worth Striving For”, chapter 18, pp. 333-335.

BLOGDOM TODAY – Car-jacking, Missional Swim Trunks, and the Holy Spirit

October 30, 2006

This is a round-up of some of the posts that caught my eye from the last week or so:

First up, on items of clothing. It seems Martyn Lloyd-Jones may win a most peculiar contest over at Pyromaniacs – the things that lot get up to when I am not looking!

Talking of which, the [...]

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QUOTE – Jonathan Edwards on Hungering After More of God

October 28, 2006

I thought this would be a great quote for us to contemplate as we prepare to gather with God’s people today. May our coming together cause an increase in our yearning for God!

Jonathan Edwards said “Persons need not and ought not to set any bounds to their spiritual and gracious appetites . . . [instead [...]

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Terry Virgo – The Leader of newfrontiers

October 28, 2006

UPDATE – I have published an interview with Terry Virgo
Well, I am back! I thought to begin with I would share a few links with you about the leader of newfrontiers – the worldwide family of churches on a mission of which I am thrilled to be a part. Terry is widely known on this [...]

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BLOGDOM TODAY and an Open Mic WEEK

October 18, 2006

‘Even Muslims look at me.’ A Muslim journalist wears the Muslim veil for a day in response to the debate about it raging in the UK. Her reaction and experiences are shocking and provide an interesting context to the debate: “I look at myself in my full-length mirror. I’m horrified. I have disappeared and somebody [...]

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AUDIO – Messages from Sovereign Grace about the Holy Spirit

October 18, 2006

This post forms part of a series which reviews materials that I think you will find helpful if you are wanting to find out more about the charismatic. There are a number of fantastic resources out there – both audio and books. In this post I will discuss three very helpful talks available online from [...]

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AUDIO SERMONS – Sovereign Grace Ministries Churches

October 17, 2006

Thanks to Mathew Sims, who collected this list, I thought I would share a complete list of Sovereign Grace Ministries Churches who share their audio sermons with us on their websites.

Abundant Life Community Church (CA)

Crossway Church of Lancaster

Community Life Church of South Denver

Cornerstone Church of Knoxville

Grace Community Church (VA)

Grace Community Church (PA)

Grace Church of Orlando

Grace [...]

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REMOTE BLOGGING – The International Baptist Conference

October 16, 2006

Thanks to Tim Challies’ pastor, Paul Martin, I bring you some quotes from the International Baptist Conference. By now you know the score: here are some quotes from the main sessions in reverse order.

IBC Session 4: Mark Dever – “Worship in the New Testament”
“The nature of worship is offering your whole self to [...]

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BLOGDOM TODAY and Open Blog Weekend

October 13, 2006

Justin Taylor has a special offer on a new adaptation of a John Owen book. He can offer 40% off the cover price which, of course, compares well with my offer of 25% off Logos Bible Software, but with the price of software being greater, you can, of course, save yourself more money by buying [...]

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PIPER FRIDAY – Fear Shot Through With Joy

October 13, 2006

Today I want to bring you a quote from a sermon by John Piper: The Present Effects of Trembling at the Wrath of God. Thanks to the wonders of the new Desiring God website, you can watch, read, or listen to the full sermon there.
This quote expresses the results of a view of God that [...]

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BLOGGING THE GIFTS – Prophecy

October 10, 2006

Earlier this year I was asked by a reader to describe my experience of the charismatic gifts. I now want to return to and complete the series in-between my reviews of some useful resources for those wanting to find out more about the charismatic.
I have spent almost thirty years of my life in reformed charismatic [...]

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BLOGDOM TODAY and an Open Mic

October 9, 2006

What is Tongues? This blogger shares about their experience of tongues and what they feel it is.
Poll Says Many Pentecostals Don’t Speak in TonguesCT says many charismatics no longer practice glossalia
Young, Restless, ReformedI know I am a bit behind the time, but CT had an interesting article last month on the resurgence of reformed teaching [...]

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PROVERBS SERMON – Self Control in an Addicted World

October 8, 2006

I preached the next sermon in our series on proverbs this morning. The message can be downloaded on the Jubilee Church London website or listened to right here in this embedded player thanks to odeo

UPDATE:  Tope Koleoso has more recently preached on alcohol, and speaks about his experiences having grown up in tetotal African [...]

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