I had a fantastic weekend listening to the man I am officially nicknaming “the Gentle Prophet.” If you are intrigued as to what a non-freaky modern day prophetic ministry could look like, this video sermon is well worth a watch:

Download options at Hearing the Holy Spirit for Yourself – Keith Hazel.

God is our adoptive father. We are in the family of God. But many of us live like we don’t know that God is our father. God is not guilt tripping, and he is not insecure. But he is often asking us, do you realize that I am your Father?

Atheists believe there is no God and so why would he affect our lives at all. But many Christians live as though God is not real. You may believe certain doctrines, but they don’t affect your life. Belief is meant to affect how you act.

God made the world, came and died for us, rose again, sent the Holy Spirit, and is coming back. Satan believes all that.

God’s will is that you be sanctified. You need to understand the difference between justification and sanctification. You were justified completely immediately on conversion. Sanctification is a process. God loves you so much that he loves you just the way you are, but he loves you too much to leave you that way.

If you try and add to Jesus righteousness your own acts that is denying the validity of what Jesus has done for you. You do not have to pass a theology exam to be saved. You do not have to clean up your moral act to become a Christian. But God works with us to change us. If you begin to doubt your salvation, look back at the historical event – the cross and the empty tomb.

What is our doctrine? God created me, and saved me. If we believe that, our life should match that doctrine. The way of life God gives us is the best life. Proverbs tells us that the way of the transgressor is hard. God’s way is full of joy and life.

Jesus must be our Lord, our Savior and our delight. Life stirs up our affections. God created all things to stir your affection for him. God uses everything in this life, including suffering to draw us to him. God wants us to be conformed to his image (see Romans 8:28:29). We are meant to be mature. Immature Christians sometimes feel blessed and other times feel cursed. When bad things happen you are still blessed.

God wants the nations to come and worship him. That is the purpose of this world, and he will use things in your life to cause you to play your part in that purpose of God.

Repent quickly. Confess often. Do not confess your sins to everyone. You need to have someone in your life who knows your biggest battles. Go and be part of the mission of God. Go seriously, knowing that there is a mission. Don’t just look for open doors. Knock them down if God is sending you somewhere. Spend your life for God. Don’t be conformed to the pattern of this world. We go together. We have a vision for 100 US cities to have multiplying churches in. Go and play your part.

Here are my notes from the final session I attended at New Word Alive, except for the bloggers’ session:

Everyone needs a theology. Many people see all kinds of negative connotations to that word, e.g. that it is “heavy.”  It is not doctrine instead of experience. It is not theology instead of how to live life better. We can’t leave theology to the experts. God doesn’t want understanding to be locked away in some ivory tower. We must live in the good of it. Without theology I am at the mercy of the world’s problems. Theology is a friend.

Hope is so critical for us. Theology gives us a hope not based on chance but on the coming of Christ. All of God’s purposes will be seen to have been fulfilled. We need to look at death in the light of Jesus’ return.

We are not agnostics, we can know. We are allowed to grieve in this world. We just don’t grieve in the same way that those do who have no hope. Jesus wept at a tomb. He was weeping for the damage and destruction that death brings, wrenching apart families. Death is not “nothing at all.”  Our hope has room for tears. But we believe that death can be compared to falling asleep.

Jesus’ death and resurrection are unique events that define him, but they have consequences for us! We believe that because of Jesus’ death and resurrection those who fall asleep in him will return with him.

Remember who you are. You are born again because of what Jesus has done for us. You have an eternal hope.

Live alert and be self-controlled in light of Jesus’ coming. It is easy to get sucked into doing things because everyone does it. The Lord will turn the spotlight on every life. “He is coming” is the refrain that will help us live our lives appropriately.

Verse 7 is the opposite of what we are meant to be. There is always something sleazy about what happens in the dark. We belong to the day.

The fact that he is coming changes life and it changes death.

In the third session on Thessalonians, Hugh honed right in on our purity. He urged all of us listening to make a decision to stop playing games with God. He warned us that if we reject the teaching on sexual purity we are not rejecting our preacher, or even Paul, but God himself.

But as Hugh explains, Paul begins by saying, “Be what you have been made by God.” We start with the gospel, but then must live in light of what God has done to us in saving us.

God intends for us to be transformed.  The proper response to the gospel is to please God and avoid sexual immorality.  If we are serious about being God’s people we will be serious about avoiding this.  Some muddle sex and love and blur them, when, in truth, they don’t always go together.

We see another warning and encouragement to love one another.  He says we have been “taught by God” to love.  Paul says he is pleased that they are loving each other, but urges them to do more.  We must learn to live a quiet life and mind our own business.  Not passivity, but that we might win the respect of outsiders.  Some people’s spirituality cuts them off from normal life.  Our faith should not take us away from our normal responsibilities.  God doesn’t want us to be idle. Elsewhere Paul says those who refuse to work should not eat. We must love and care for those in genuine need. But we must also help those who can genuinely help themselves to do so.

We are meant to be developing all the time.  The issue is not where we are, but rather what is the direction of travel.  God wants us to be getting ever closer to the mark of holiness and ultimately to appear before his throne as blameless and holy.

One of the features of New Word Alive is the series of Bible readings which, over the course of each morning, covers a book. This year Hugh Palmer is covering 1 Thessalonians. I missed the opening session which focused on how the word was being twisted and assaulted in Paul’s day.

Hugh began by speaking of the intolerance against Christians happening right now in the UK, the likes of which we would never have imagined. Christianity and British culture have drifted apart. Hugh said that he had been asked in a TV interview about homosexuality, sex before marriage, and Islam. The interviewer asked, “How come your values are so conservative and yet so many young people are coming to your church?” Actually, we are seeing just a small fraction of what it would have been like in the First Century.

2:13 ff. The Ministry of the Word of God, not of men

Any preaching we hear must be judged by the Bible, that is how you know if it really is the word of God you have heard. We must be like the Thessalonians and welcome God’s word into our lives and embrace it. Our ministry should, like the Apostle’s, be a word-centered message. The word is living and active. We do not get to heaven by learning information. We aren’t word-centered because we are academics. We believe this because when personalities have gone, the word remains active in us.

Receiving opposition and persecution is a true mark of those who have received the word of God.

Those who try and gag the gospel are warned. Actually, historically and in the rest of the world today, to live in a culture where it is considered “normal” for people to be Bible-believing Christians is unusual. We tend to think that if someone gets into trouble for their faith it is probably because he has been excessive. The Apostle Paul thinks it’s normal. Paul’s attitude is that if we live, we will continue to share the gospel, if we die we will go to heaven to be with Jesus.

How are you preparing your children for what their faith might cost them? Who knows, but maybe your children will end up in prison for believing God’s word. A Christianity for which no one would die is no Christianity.

For Paul, seeing his readers in glory will be the best moment of his life. Paul looks for faith in them, and rejoices when he sees it. He is really living because of them standing firm. There is a godly discontent. Paul is always wanting more for them. He doesn’t settle for merely someone becoming a believer, wanting instead to see them grow to maturity and be blameless and holy. We are not meant to be individualistic, but committed to the well-being of others.

You cannot understand this Apostle without understanding two things: (1) Paul’s huge love for God’s word, which explains why he has so many enemies. (2) Pauls huge and costly love for God’s people, which explains why he has so many friends. His life is a challenge to us to follow his example.

John Piper is a great preacher—not just to listen to, but also to watch. I find God stirring my heart through him every time I play one of his videos. It also reminds me of what I’m aiming for when I preach, which is “logic on fire.” I pray that God will draw many into his purposes in the way he has drawn John Piper.

Today I want to highlight one of the sermons in his series on the new birth – Why Do We Need To Be Born Again? (Part 2). Here is an excerpt of this excellent sermon, which serves as a wonderful reminder of how desperately we need GOD to act in saving us. This is one of the sermons that form the basis for his forthcoming book, Finally Alive, which is now available for only $5 on preorder!

No man can make anyone else become a Christian. May God move and bring many into his kingdom.

1. Without the new birth, we won’t have saving faith, but only unbelief. (John 1:11-13; 1 John 5:1; Ephesians 2:8-9; Philippians 1:29; 1 Timothy 1:14; 2 Timothy 1:3).

2. Without the new birth, we won’t have justification, but only condemnation. (Romans 8:1; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Galatians 2:17; Philippians 3:9).
3. Without the new birth, we won’t be the children of God, but the children of the devil. (1 John 3:9-10).
4. Without the new birth, we won’t bear the fruit of love by the Holy Spirit, but only bear the fruit of death. (Romans 6:20-21; 7:4-6; 15:16; 1 Corinthians 1:2; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Ephesians 2:10; Galatians 5:6; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 1 Peter 1:2; 1 John 3:14).
5. Without the new birth, we won’t have eternal joy in fellowship with God, but only eternal misery with the devil and his angels. (Matthew 25:41; John 3:3; Romans 6:23; Revelation 2:11; 20:15).

— John Piper, Why Do We Need to Be Born Again? (Part 2)

Many readers of my blog will know of Lou Fellingham, and some will have been praying for the family situation she has been facing lately. Her mother, only 56, died yesterday.

The family would like people who knew her to be made aware of the fact that there will be a celebration service for her on Saturday, October 18th, at Jubilee Community Centre, Charlwood Road, East Grinstead, RH19 2HL with a 4 o’clock start. All are welcome. There will be tea, coffee, and cake afterwards. Should you wish to bring a cake, please do.

Please join me in praying for Lou and the whole family at this time. We grieve, but not in the same way as those who have no hope.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

As a believer living in the West, I’m constantly reminded of the need to exercise discernment, especially when it comes to matters such as claims of spiritual gifts and the activity of the Holy Spirit. I thought today I would go to one of my favorite works by Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones, Joy Unspeakable.

Directly before this quote, the Doctor points out that in all ages there are two main dangers confronting Christians when they need to evaluate claims regarding the reappearance or revival of gifts in the church. The first danger, he says, is to immediately reject such reports, which he is not afraid to call “quenching the Spirit” (1 Thessalonians 5:19). He goes so far as to call that the more common danger. The second risk is, of course, the opposite to this—uncritical acceptance of everything, which leads to extremism.

He is always very systematic in his thinking, so he goes on to list why we need to be careful to weigh and test everything we hear about. My paraphrased version of his reasons why we need to be discerning are as follows:

1. The Bible tells us to. (See, for example, 1 Thessalonians 5:19-22.)

2. Studying Church history throughout the ages should strongly warn us of the consequences of being naive and accepting everything that is reported to be a “work of God’s Spirit.”
3. Clear evidence we hear of demonic activity in the occult. He argues that it is even possible for evil spirits to “heal” people.
4. The amazing things that hypnotists can make their subjects do.
5. The clear weakness and suggestability of people as demonstrated to us through modern psychology and what is called “hysteria.”
6. The fact that there is a real devil whose goal is to destroy us, and as a result inspires and empowers his servants.

Matthew 24:24: For false christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible.

He then stresses that he is concerned to warn those who are passionate about God, and open to him acting today in dramatic ways. He is clear in the context that he would count himself among that number. The Doctor was clearly not an extreme cessationist.

In this quote he explains what we should not rely on to enable us to make appropriate judgments. Next week we will examine the tests that the Doctor believes should be applied.

I am speaking particularly to those good, honest, spiritually-minded men and women of any age whatsoever who are longing for revival and reawakening . . . For it is your very anxiety to know the fullness and the baptism of the Spirit that constitutes your danger and exposes you to this possibility of not using your critical faculties as you should. . . .

Do not rely only upon your inward feelings . . . that is entirely subjective, and while I do not discount the subjective altogether, I say it is not enough. You must not rely solely upon some inner inward sense, because that is the very thing the devil wants you to do. That means you are not using your full critical faculties; deciding in a purely emotional and subjective manner.

. . . do not be swayed even by the fact that something reported to you makes you feel wonderful . . .You may say, ‘I have never known such love, I have never known such peace, I have never known such joy’ . . . Do not say ‘I feel this is right, everything in me says this is right . . .’ It is not enough. The devil is as subtle as that . . .

Lastly, do not base your judgment on the people who are . . . making their report to you . . . It is often some of the best, most honest and sincere people who can be most seriously led astray . . . The devil does not waste any of his time and energy with your smug formalist — he is safely asleep, already under the drug of the devil, though he is sitting in a Christian church.

Martyn Lloyd-Jones, Joy Unspeakable, (Eastbourne UK: Kingsway Communications, 1995) 193-195. Emphasis mine.

For more information on Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones see this summary post, my Lloyd-Jones page, or the MLJ Recording Trust.

This morning I attended the last session of the Leaders’ training track, Prophetic Encounter, led by Sam Poe and Phil Wilthew. Today’s session looked at “Pastors and Prophets Together Building the Church.” I also was able to get to the two previous sessions, which I summarized at these pages:

• Apostles and Prophets Together on a Mission

• Prophets and Prophets Together Giving a Fuller Picture

Sam serves on John Lanferman’s apostolic team in the USA. He and his wife, Marlene, have travelled widely, serving churches in the USA and other nations. In recent years they have been particularly involved in working together with churches in Russia and the Ukraine. Sam and Marlene are presently based in Tacoma, Washington, where they are part of a new church. Sam is also serving other churches related to Newfrontiers in that region.

Phil is married to Carole, has two children, and is an elder in City Church, Newcastle, UK. He serves churches prophetically, particularly in the north of the UK, and has a passion to develop prophetic teams.

More posts from this conference can be found on my TOAM08 label page. You can download the mp3s of this week’s talks by subscribing to the new Newfrontiers podcast, which will be an easy way for you to get access to the mp3s for free.

A prophet working in isolation can cause mayhem! But working with the local pastor produces both security and expansion in the people for whom he has responsibility.

Sam Poe began by turning to 1 Thessalonians 5. “Test everything. Hold on to the good, avoid every kind of evil.”

The focal point of prophetic ministry should be the local church. The application and expression of that ministry is in building up the church. What Paul says in 1 Thessalonians 5 will require not just the prophets, but those in authority—teachers and pastors working together to ensure that prophecy is tested, weighed, and applied.

Prophecy can bring encouragement, direction, and prediction of the future, as well as warnings and correction. Mandates of this text are about prophecy.

SOME IMPERATIVES IN THIS PASSAGE

Don’t quench the fire by disdaining or despising prophecy.
Because of the excesses, errors, and eccentricities, we can reject it because of this. Root the pictures in sound theology. We need elders who will pastor as leaders the prophetic. The central purpose of prophecy is to build up. They also have a foundational effort. Encouragement or exhortation—it’s about helping someone reach for a positive future. Don’t ever use prophecy to try to get somebody to do something you want them to do. Life is full of trouble; prophecy brings comfort, which is more of a prod to get you going forward and to strengthen you in the battle.

TEST them all.
All prophecy needs to be tested. Not to judge with a scowl on the face. The word in Greek is to examine something and evaluate it with the attitude or expectation of approving it, i.e. our attitude should not be cynical.

Maintain what is good — hold on to it.
This is good and we want to take it on board and take some steps. Otherwise it could be frustrating. Apostolic ministry and pastoral ministry are critical. Fan the flames.

Abstain from whatever is evil.
Sometimes something comes in the name of prophecy that’s not helpful. Sometimes there is no real weight in the prophecy.

HOW TO RECEIVE PROPHETS INTO THE LOCAL CHURCH

If you don’t have a well-established mature prophet in the life of the church, sometimes you may need to receive one of them. Ephesians 4:11 type prophets can help us lay firm foundations in the church. It’s the same foundation that they lay.

As the question, “Are they accountable to a local church and its leadership?” Don’t invite them if they aren’t! Every leader and ministry must be rooted into the life of a local church. Some are very trans-local and mobile, but where is home? Where do they come back to? Are they related to and working in a team with an apostolic ministry? They are meant to be working together. Find each other and be related to each other.

It’s important that the congregation has a clear biblical understanding of the place and value of prophetic ministry in the local church.

Phil Wilthew then added to this. Pastors and prophets are very different people. Pastors and prophets have the same job description –—i.e. to reveal Jesus. There are five ways this can work well.

Recognize differences.
God designed us to be different and complementary. Don’t be too quick to compartmentalize. We are a blend of gifts. Gifts are colors and shades, but not boxes. Pastors tend to be warm, loving, create unity, security, strength, consolidate, provide strong foundations, are measured and well rounded, not given to extremes, cautious of change, patient, good for the long haul with no short sharp fixes. They are amazing gifts to the church. Prophets are the perfect foil for all those characteristics, — they are direct, love change, can get frustrated with the status quo, look at what’s ahead, find it hard to live in the hear and now as they are looking ahead, don’t like maintaining and consolidating; they are impulsive, defensive, attacking, not measured, and dislike caution. Again an amazing gift to the church. There is a great potential for synergy, and also for challenge between them. Self-awareness is a great gift.

Practice love.
It’s simple, but worth saying again. Neither circumcision or uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. If you don’t have love, you are a painful cymbal. It’s not emotional, it’s something we do. Chemistry is important, but express faith and practice love. Don’t be right all the time.

Love enables honest communication.
Love enables you to talk honestly with each other. But can rebuke, spell out what’s what. Too many people have high honesty, but shallow relationships. Paul opposed Peter face-to-face. Don’t send an e-mail! Look in the whites of their eyes and realize I “need to talk to you honestly.” Gather pastors with prophetically gifted guys in the church into groups, teams. In times of frustration, don’t be impulsive in your communication. Utilize communication, especially with prophetic people who have gone silent and found a cave to hide in!

Develop proper teams.
The first is a mixed-gift team. Be with guys who are not like you. Cover weaknesses. Also need same-gift teams, too. So we need to mix it up and have different combinations.

Play to your strengths.
We need to look to change the areas where we are lacking. But, we will be most effective by getting better at what we are already good at. Get better at your gift.

Give good feedback to good prophetic people in your church. The worst thing for most prophetic people is silence. Do it in the meeting. “I just want to say thank you so much to the prophetic people who shared this morning. I was particularly blessed by this …” Also, provide personal feedback, e.g. “Thank you so much for sharing. Next time something that might really help you would be if you would talk slower and more clearly.”

Don’t always translate frustration as rebellion, or that they are out of kilter. It’s their job to plow things up. He hears God and mercilessly questions everything. A prophet is therefore seen as a threat and wants movement now. He is not a troubler. Ask prophetic folk what they are hearing. Work on the character of prophetic people in your church. Character training is of highest value. Rigorously challenge prophetic people on their time with God. Understand that accuracy is learned and developed over time. Need very positive encouragement and help.

In a variation on the “Ask a Blogger” theme, I received this e-mail, which was effectively asking Doctor Martyn Lloyd-Jones a question.

“I have been doing some research lately on the revivals in Wales and the ministry of Christmas Evans and have come across an emphasis in the Welsh Revivals and in Lloyd-Jones on unction in preaching. Even C. J. Mahaney referenced this in a recent post on his blog: Recommended Chapters on Preaching. Long question, short: Is there anything that you’ve posted on unction in Lloyd-Jones or could you do that on an upcoming Lloyd-Jones day? I would be greatly served by it.”

You ask a great question. I don’t think I have posted on the doctor’s view of unction in preaching. I would commend his book, Preaching and Preachers, and a book about his preaching called The Sacred Anointing for more on this subject. Thanks to the wonders of my Logos Bible Software, I was able to quickly find a couple of great examples of the Doctor’s teaching on unction which I will share shortly. In essence, for Lloyd-Jones, true preaching was much more than a mere intellectual explanation of words in the Bible. His views on this matter were closely related to his views on the baptism with the Spirit, which I have blogged about previously here.

I love these two quotes from E. M. Bounds which I have also shared once before, and which help to explain what lies at the heart of the Doctor’s view of unction in preaching:

“This divine unction is the one distinguishing feature that separates true gospel preaching from all other methods of presenting truth. It backs and interpenetrates the revealed truth with all the force of God. It illumines the Word and broadens and enrichens [sic] the intellect and empowers it to grasp and apprehend the Word. It qualifies the preacher’s heart, and brings it to that condition of tenderness, of purity, of force and light that are necessary to secure the highest results. This unction gives to the preacher liberty and enlargement of thought and soul—a freedom, fullness, and directness of utterance that can be secured by no other process.”

— E. M. Bounds, Power Through Prayer
“Preaching is not the performance of an hour. It is the outflow of a life. It takes twenty years to make a sermon, because it takes twenty years to make the man. The true sermon is a thing of life. The sermon grows because the man grows. The sermon is forceful because the man is forceful. The sermon is holy because the man is holy. The sermon is full of the divine unction because the man is full of the divine unction.”

— E. M. Bounds, Preaching and Prayer

Here’s how the Doctor explains it:

“When the Holy Spirit comes in revival there is a great anointing, and it shows itself in many ways. You read of men who had believed the truth, and who were preaching faithfully and regularly, but who were ineffective and lacking in power. Suddenly they are filled with power. They speak with boldness and with power and with great authority. That is the anointing of the Spirit . . .

But this anointing is not confined to revival. I use that simply as an illustration. Thank God it is given at other times. Any man who has ever preached should be able to testify to this. There are times when, entirely outside his own control, he is given a special authority, special power, an unction which is unusual. And there are good reasons for its bestowal. There are circumstances which he himself is not always aware of, which he only discovers afterwards. Somebody may have come to the congregation who needed a particular message or word, and the preacher, without knowledge on his part, is guided to say something which is just appropriate to that particular state and condition. There is, therefore, this special enduement of power which is called ‘the anointing’. It is something that one should seek and covet, it is something for which one should be constantly praying . . .

Our Lord was setting out on His public ministry. As the Son of God, He was always full of the Spirit. But in order to do His work He needed a special anointing and He received it at His baptism in the river Jordan by John the Baptist. The Holy Spirit then descended upon Him, He was given this special power. He was God; but as man He needed this ‘baptism’, this ‘anointing’ with the Holy Spirit.”

— David Martyn Lloyd-Jones, The Christian Soldier: An Exposition of Ephesians 6:10 to 20, Banner of Truth Trust, Edinburgh; Carlisle, PA, 1977, p.115.

“The Holy Spirit enables Christians by giving them what is called in the New Testament “unction”; He gives “anointing,” understanding, freedom, and clarity of speech, an authority. Many terms can be used with respect to this God-given ability to preach. One quotation seems to me to sum it all up very well. Probably the first letter that Paul ever wrote was to the church at Thessalonica, and in the first chapter of the first epistle, he reminds the believers of how the Gospel had come to them: “Our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance” (1 Thessalonians 1:5). Paul was saying: “I did the speaking, but it was not I. I was used.” As he was speaking, he knew that he was merely the vehicle, the channel, the instrument that the Holy Spirit was using. He was taken up; he was out of himself; he was, as it were, possessed by the Spirit, and he knew that he was preaching with “much assurance.” Everything was against him. Thessalonica was a pagan city, part of Macedonia. The people did not have a Jewish background or the Old Testament Scriptures; they did not know the prophets; they knew nothing. They were living a life of sin and degradation in utter ignorance, and yet when the apostle appeared among them, he was able to speak with assurance. Why? Because it was not his word only, but he spoke “in power, and in the Holy Ghost.” . . .

The Holy Spirit takes people and helps them to speak in a clear manner . . . That is the way the Holy Spirit works, but there is another—His action upon the listeners. If the Holy Spirit only acted on the preacher, there would be no conversions. The supreme example of the Spirit’s action on the hearers is what happened when Peter was preaching in Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost. In Acts 2 we read that halfway through his sermon, as he was expounding the Scriptures, the people “were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?” (v. 37). The Holy Spirit did the pricking. It was not Peter’s sermon, which was a straightforward exposition of Scripture. The power, the convicting power of the Holy Spirit, was there working in the listeners. On that day three thousand were added to the church. The beginning of chapter 4 tells us that in the next day or so another two thousand were added.

This, then, is the dual action of the Spirit. He takes the preacher, the speaker, whether in a pulpit or in private, and gives this enabling. Then the Holy Spirit acts upon the ones who are listening and deals with their minds and hearts and wills. Both things happen at the same time.”

— David Martyn Lloyd-Jones, Courageous Christianity, 1st U. S. edition, Crossway Books, Wheaton, IL, 2001, p. 190.

For more information on Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones see this summary post or the MLJ Recording Trust.

In the previous segment of this interview with Rob Rufus, we finished by talking a bit about the network of churches of which he is a part. We ended with Rob speaking about a team of apostles, prophets, evangelists, and pastors/ teachers. Today we begin by asking Rob what he means by “apostles.”

John Piper has a glorious richness in his preaching repertoire. Almost every time he is invited to preach anywhere it seems he produces a brand new message. He makes the Bible fresh. Today I want to return to the habit of posting a quote from Piper on Fridays by sharing an astonishing quote from an amazing talk he recently gave:

Let me underline one of the statements I’ve already made: Suffering is an essential part of your Christian existence. I choose the word essential very carefully. Paul said to new believers in Acts 14:22, “Through many tribulations we will enter the kingdom of heaven.” This is Christianity 101. Paul says in 1 Thessalonians 3:2-3 that we Christians are destined for suffering. This is your destiny—suffering. Think it not strange when the fiery ordeal comes upon you. And 2 Timothy 3:12: All who desire to live a godly life will be persecuted. And Romans 8:16: We are fellow heirs if we suffer with him. There is one God-appointed path to glorification—suffering. If you are making it your life ambition to avoid suffering, you will perish and suffer forever . . .” (emphasis mine).

Sam Poe
Sam serves on the Newfrontiers apostolic team in the USA. He and his wife, Marlene, have travelled widely, serving churches in the USA and other nations. In recent years they have been particularly involved in working together with a number of churches in Russia and the Ukraine. Sam and Marlene are presently based in Tacoma, Washington, USA, where they are part of a new church plant. Sam is also serving other churches related to Newfrontiers in that region as part of the apostolic team.

Guy Miller
Guy Miller leads the Bournemouth Family Church, UK and leads apostolic teams that serve the Wessex Region with seventeen churches. He also overseas the work of 21 churches in the North and West of India, and two churches in Portugal. He is a passionate family man, married to Heather, with four children, and loves fishing.

Prophets in the New Testament are not meant to be lonely isolated people who suddenly appear with a message from God. Rather, we are called to live in community, in team life. We are family; we are in a real relationship. Prophets are meant to work together in team with each other, and also with the other ministries.

Biblical Base For Team

• Acts 11:27-28
  “Some prophets” — notice it’s a team. Agabus was part of a prophetic team that came from the Jerusalem church.

• Acts 13:1-3
  Again it says “prophets” (plural) and “teachers” (plural). There was a team of leaders in the church, and when they were together, the Spirit began to speak. Acts 15 — at the Council of Jerusalem, at the conclusion, some key leaders were chosen to go back with Paul and Barnabus. Judas and Silas went and said much to encourage and strengthen the brothers.
• 1 Timothy 4:14
  The prophecy came amidst the body of elders. Prophetic ministry releases things in people.

The foundational basis for this “team-life” is our triune God. God lives throughout all eternity in wonderful and joyous community. Three magnificent persons, ONE living God. When someone says the word “God,” do you think of him that way? God really is three-in-one. We are called not only to teach trinitarian theology, but to live trinitarian ways. 1 John 1:3-4. We need to be in fellowship with the persons of God and then reach out to others. There is an overflowing joy in the Trinity.

“The being of the church should echo the dynamic of the relations between the three persons who together constitute the Deity.” (Gunton)

This should put an end to all isolated one-man-band ministry.

Some of the Benefits of Prophetic Team Ministry

• The joy of serving together — a relational side. The prophetic can be a bit intense; working in team helps us to avoid getting that way. It helps us to not take ourselves so seriously. There is a rest in it.

• There is a fuller flow of revelation. No one gets it all. If a team prophesies, the results will be more full-orbed.
• Immediate accountability. There can be an immediate weighing of words.
• It can help check eccentricities. Some prophetic guys seem to think the weirder we can get the better. Lone ministries have no one who asks them, “Why are you being so weird?”
• Avoidance of the “super-star” syndrome. We all need help. We must not get our personal identity wrapped up in our gifting. There is a risk of over-exposure and feeling almost like a prophesying machine. You can begin to feel used.
• Avoidance of personal control or the manipulation of others. Never prophecy to get someone to do what you want them to do! Often we don’t understand what we are saying when we prophesy, rather than trying to get anybody to do anything. (2 Corinthians 4:2 — see the way The Message interprets that.) The word is out there and can be weighed rather than with secret manipulation.
• Helps create an atmosphere of humility and submission. 1 Corinthians 14:29-33. Sometimes you can get a revelation that you don’t share because you have to stop. Wait your turn. Stop and give someone else a chance, i.e. make room for others. If someone works alone, it’s easy to overlook the authority and oversight of the local church leadership. Elders are the door of a church and have authority.
• Helps train up younger prophetic ministries.

The Value of Prophets Being Teamed With Apostles

• In 2004 there was a whole seminar on this topic.

• These two foundational ministries need to work together. Every single local church needs that foundation laid in it. This is teamwork.
• 1 Thessalonians was written by Paul, Silas, and Timothy. There is a team at work. Paul leads the team, but Silas is a prophet.
• Apostolic wisdom, teaching, and strategy, coupled with immediate prophetic revelation bring strength and vibrancy to local churches.

In Conclusion

• Prophetic teamwork is of great value. It’s the primary NT model for prophetic ministry.

UPDATE I have since also had filmed a video interview with Liam Goligher.

This is the last post in my interview series with Liam Goligher. In previous posts we have addressed our distinctives, things that unite us, the atonement, and now to conclude, we will look at some very interesting comments Liam made about church government and structure.
Towards the end of our time together, I asked Liam what he felt the current crisis in evangelicalism was teaching us about how we define evangelicalism. There is, he said, a fundamental problem at the heart of the current evangelical movement. In the past we wanted to be independent and build a structure that allowed a “free for all.” His own church, he said, is entirely independent. When it comes to the evangelical movement, it seems that no one is in a position to bring some definition — if a person claims they can sign the statement of faith in good conscience, the general perception is that we are powerless to do anything about it. This whole scenario of the last couple of years has made Liam think that we all need to revisit the idea of church polity or church government:

“What is now clear is that independence is not the answer. We need to look at more of a Presbyterian-style model with some outside accountability. I see in newfrontiers, for example, an effective attempt to recreate the balance between the autonomy of the local church and an appropriate, biblical ‘apostolic’ authority. We all need to look at models like that and see what we can learn from them.”

Interestingly, Liam accepts that he himself, in common with many other evangelical leaders, in practice functions in a very similar way to one of the leaders of an apostolic family of churches like newfrontiers. He trains young men, encourages them, helps to place them as pastors, and supports them from a distance in their pastoral work. He provides to those people a sense of identity and support that goes beyond the local church and which is significantly more than what is available by merely owning a denominational title or the label “evangelical.”

I am excited to see that men like Dr Goligher are beginning to understand that pieces of paper and organisational structures do not guarantee orthodoxy. I believe that it is no accident that the New Testament speaks of God giving gifts of specific men with ministries to the whole church to equip us and help us to do works of service. It is these men who are supposed to stop us being blown around by every wind of teaching.

There are not many with the stature and authority of a man like Liam Goligher. As the interviewer, I was struck that there is an urgent need in the Church today for men like Dr Goligher to rise up and use their God-given authority to bring clear definition and leadership to others. That leadership will obviously be primarily directed by each man of such calibre towards churches who share the majority of both the theological and stylistic distinctives that he holds dear. Increasingly such men will, I am sure, be joining hands together across such divides in a very clear way to stand up for the distinctives of the Gospel. The Gospel is far more important than the second-order issues that sometimes stand in our way of working together. I will give Liam the last word in this write-up of our meeting:

“We have not linked arms in the past as much as we should. Provided we can agree that local churches have their own theological identity and style, interaction between us is essential, especially as it seems that at the moment the whole evangelical house is collapsing around us.”

In the first post of my interview with Liam Goligher we focused on the distinctives on which he and I differ. In the second post we discussed some important challenges facing the church today. We now turn to an issue which is never far from my blog — the atonement.

Perhaps because it is most topical right now, and perhaps because he has already written a popular book on the subject (The Jesus Gospel), the atonement seemed to arouse the most passion in Liam as we spoke. Liam’s book should, in my view, be seen as occupying the middle ground between C. J. Mahaney’s Cross Centered Life and the recently published Pierced for Our Transgressions (PFOT). Unlike Mahaney’s more devotional book, The Jesus Gospel engages directly with the current debate prompted by Steve Chalke, but is neither as long nor as deep theologically as PFOT. Liam is glad that his book can fit into a spectrum which means that every Christian can access vital teaching on the atonement, and he strongly welcomed the publication of the new longer work — of which he is one of a very long list of evangelical endorsers.

Liam is very disappointed at the reluctance of some leading figures within UK evangelicalism to define the limits of what is acceptable in an evangelical’s understanding of the atonement. As far as Liam (and me, for that matter) is aware, Pete Broadbent (by implication) and N. T. Wright are the only key figures who have gone on record supporting the right of someone to describe views of the atonement (which the majority of evangelicals hold dear) as “cosmic child abuse” and still maintain that they are “evangelical.” By contrast, there is a very long list of names who have endorsed PFOT very strongly, so there seems to be a very strong sense of the vital importance of the doctrine of Penal Substitutionary Atonement. There seems to be very few key figures in evangelicalism who have been willing to go further and to say publicly that the ideas popularised by Steve Chalke are unacceptable within the evangelical community — two notable exceptions are, of course, Wayne Grudem and John Piper.

I asked Liam how he came to write his book on the atonement. He described the strong feelings he and other Keswick trustees had felt about Steve Chalke’s book, The Lost Message of Jesus, when it first came out. It was of great concern to him that these views condemning penal substitutionary atonement were coming from Steve Chalke, one of the most influential members of the evangelical movement in the UK, who sits on the boards (as Liam described them) “of almost every major Christian organisation in the UK” and is part of the Spring Harvest leadership and speaking team. Liam feels very strongly that PSA is central to the very heart of the Gospel. Sitting in a coffee shop in Keswick, where strong concerns were voiced around, a friend said, “If one of you guys don’t do something about this, who will?” Liam explained, “I took that as a word from the Lord to me, and from that moment knew I had been commissioned by Him to write a book on the subject of the atonement.”

Liam begins The Jesus Gospel by describing how he found a book many years ago, written in the 19th century, in which there was a clear distaste for the doctrine of penal substitutionary atonement and the concept of the wrath of God. It advocated exactly the same beliefs that are being publicised now, and was clearly written in response to a culture hostile to the Gospel. The modern views are, to Liam, exactly identical to those of the original 19th century theological liberals and 20th century modernists. Once again the drive is to be culturally relevant, which must not be allowed when it comes to doctrine. The only difference is, far from happily calling themselves liberals, modern exponents of these teachings are trying to retain the description “evangelical,” and even painting historic evangelical positions as somehow “sub-biblical” and “un-Christian.”

I asked Liam if he could enlighten me as to what the detractors of PSA believe actually happened on the cross, since I find them hard to pin down. He agreed that it is far from clear what many of those people actually believe, and that often it seems almost as if they are saying that the cross was merely a display to the world of how much God loves us. Liam said, “It’s a bit like a boy saying to a girl — ‘Look how much I love you!’ — and then jumping straight off a cliff. That’s an absurd way to view the cross.”

Continued in part four . . .

In the first post of this interview with Liam Goligher we focused on the distinctives between our backgrounds. In this post we discuss important doctrinal challenges facing the church today which should prompt confessing evangelicals like Liam and myself to stand together. Tomorrow we will address the atonement and Liam’s book on the subject.

To Liam, unity is not everything. He reported receiving strong criticism from some prominent evangelicals over his stand on some of the issues we will spend the rest of this article discussing. He was told that he was “creating trouble,” and in his own words, some evangelicals are “crying unity.” Liam became fired up and his Celtic passion was very apparent when he said, “You cannot sacrifice truth for unity!” Liam believes that because of some of the current debates, the word “evangelical” has already become devoid of meaning and significance. He believes that the whole house of evangelicalism is coming tumbling down around us whilst we are doing little about it. Much of our activity is, to Liam, nothing more than rearranging the chairs on the Titanic. Liam believes, “The only substantial resistance to the breakdown of evangelicalism will come from reformed confessing evangelicals, whether they be charismatic or not charismatic, for they are the only ones with the strength and conviction to stand against the assault.”

There are several lines of assault in what Goligher feels is a battle for the very survival of the Gospel. He believes that our children will be left with nothing if we do not boldly defend and declare the Gospel with which we have been entrusted. We briefly discussed each major battle he feels we are facing:

THE DOCTRINE OF GOD

Attacks on the nature of God are occurring on two fronts. Liam is greatly concerned by those who say that God is surprised by events as they unfold. Open Theism denies the essential nature of the biblical God by saying that God is acting without a script. There are also some who claim that the notion of God as almighty or omnipotent is a Greek idea. Liam urges us to go back to the Bible where we see God clearly described as knowing everything and being totally in control of everything. Romans 8:28 really is true – it is not wishful thinking!

JUSTIFICATION

For Liam, any accommodation with those who promote the “New Perspectives on Paul” is nothing short of “redefining what it means to stand right before God.” Justification becomes something that happens in the future and is dependent on our works. Liam is concerned that the works of these theologians are overly complex, and that it seems it simply isn’t possible to popularise their teaching. To him, theology should be capable of a simple explanation that even a child can understand, whilst, of course, it can also be explored and discussed at much greater levels of complexity. Liam feels it is highly suspect that many of these writers constantly claim that their critics simply cannot understand them: “It smells of gnosticism, that is, having a secret knowledge available only to a few.”

THE DOCTRINE OF SCRIPTURE

To Liam, this doctrine — and particularly the sufficiency of Scripture — is undermined by those who propagate the “New Perspectives on Paul.” This is because there is almost a recreation of a “priestly class.” Ordinary believers are told they can only understand the Scriptures if they read the complex writings of certain scholars. This is, according to Liam, counter to the view that Scripture, whilst benefiting from careful study and scholarship, is also simply understood by ordinary people. To Liam, this process is almost a reversal of the Reformation — “We might as well become Roman Catholics,” he said.

Continued in part three . . .

It was a real privilege to speak with Liam Goligher recently, and it is a delight to now bring a report of that conversation here to my blog. Liam is a trustee of the Keswick Convention and a well-known Bible teacher. He leads Duke Street Church, an independent church in Richmond, UK which has approximately 400 members, with many more attending, making it a large church for England.

Liam comes from a very different church background than I do. For example, he is happy to use the identification “cessationist” in a nuanced kind of way, and the style of his church meetings (which includes liturgy and more traditional music) is very different to that with which I am familiar. Yet immediately there was a mutual recognition of brotherhood in the body of Christ. Liam is clearly a man who loves Jesus and is willing to stand up for biblical truth. We spent the majority of our time discussing things about which we both agree, and my respect for him grew by the minute. I will spend this first post of the interview discussing those things where we have differing perspectives, and then move on in subsequent posts to the more vital doctrines — including, of course, the atonement — about which Dr Goligher is clearly very passionate.

Liam was eager to point out that he believes it is vital for those who he describes as “confessing evangelicals” to work together across some of the barriers that have divided them in the past. He does not, however, advocate minimising or removing all such distinctions. We operate in two spheres — the sphere of joining hands to support the Gospel and work together and the sphere of the local church. Liam spoke about the importance of realising what issues have prominence, and in our conversation those did, indeed, have prominence. He clearly believes that what Mohler calls “theological triage” is crucial. There are issues that should not prevent us from working together on a conference platform, but which within a local church may present practical difficulties. Each local church must identify where it is going to stand on these matters, and on which of them it is willing to be flexible. Liam believes, for example, that to have both cessationists and charismatics in the leadership team of a local church congregation would not be practical. On the other hand, in his own local church, considerable flexibility is given to those who differ on the mode and timing of baptism. Not every church will come to the same conclusions about where it stands on these “second-order” issues, which of them will be required for membership, and which will be prerequisites for leaders in that congregation. But, said Liam, every church must have a clear idea of its own theological and stylistic identity, and must not confuse the two. Along with theological distinctives, each congregation will be shaped to some degree by the local culture in which it exists — this will affect the stylistic choices, but obviously should not affect the theological ones. It is vital that we remember that the way we do things is not the only way they can be done — or even necessarily the best way in another context.

In his own local church, Liam felt it was crucial to introduce a firmer commitment to some of the doctrinal creeds, and to demonstrate this by a greater use of catechisms and confessions. He was intentional about defining exactly where the church stood on doctrine and where it allowed variation within its members and leadership team. He also introduced an eldership. He has sought to apply the regulative principle to worship using creeds and some reformed liturgy and confessions as teaching and worship aids, along with the best mixture of traditional and contemporary music. “We love Watts and Wesley, as well as Townend and Kauflin. Our mornings are more classical, and our evenings more jazz and contemporary.” Being based in Richmond and having a desire to reach a certain group of people who, historically, their church had not met, he also introduced some changes to their style of worship. In his desire to shape a worship service to help a certain type of person encounter God in a relevant way, Liam arrived in a very different place to others of us. Where many of us have moved to more informal services with drums, keyboards, and guitars, Liam went another way. The changes towards including liturgy in his meetings and maintaining a music style and format that was familiar to many in the area of Richmond, proved successful in encouraging people back to church. Liam is eager to stress that he, personally, can worship God in a variety of settings, and is happy to attend worship services very different to those in his local church congregation.

We discussed the specific issue of the charismatic/cessationist debate. Liam believes that this can often revolve around differences in how certain things are defined. For example, the typical charismatic and cessationist hold to very different definitions of prophecy. To Liam, these differences are often about “sloppy language,” and he is not at all concerned with where people stand on that issue when it comes to uniting with them for the purposes of defending and declaring the Gospel. Liam was anxious to point out, however — something I have begun to realise is clearly the case — that moderate cessationists like Liam are not so very far from us charismatics. As he put it, “We all want to have a dynamic living relationship with God and each other, and to experience something of God in our meetings.”

Continued in Part Two . . .

• Ecstasy
• Emotions? Sure. We got ‘em . . .
• Voices in Our Heads