I know many of my readers are pastors. So this video will be especially relevant to them as three great men of God talk about the losses that aging brings, and wise transition. But it is also of relevance to all of us as we remember our human frailty, and strive not to allow ourselves to be defined by what we do for God.

Don Carson and John Piper turn 65 this year. One could forgive either of them for feeling they had pulled their weight and it was time to ease up. Neither of them seem to be minded to do so. And in their renewed determination to serve the body of Christ they have been goaded on by this email from one of their friends that I thought was worth sharing. There are a number of godly men today who are setting a similar example to youngsters like me in their mature years. (OK, so I know that to some young people, as I am now 40 I fall into this same older group, but really I still feel young!) I think of men like Jack Hayford who devotes serious amounts of time and energy to training pastors, and of Packer, Stott, Sproul, and, of course, Terry Virgo who I am sure will not simply relax as he grows older. As we age, may we not give up on serving God ourselves, and especially not on encouraging others in the way that Barnabas turned into an art form.

Perhaps this will prompt someone reading this to renewed faith that you can still be useful for Jesus as you grow older:

” [May I remind you of] Schlatter’s 11th hour productivity—nine critical commentaries, for example, published around or after his 80th birthday.

In fact, he published 13 major works beginning in 1926—four years past his 70th birthday.

This does not count a large number of shorter or more popular works. Nor his university lectures and seminars, which continued until [he was eighty], I believe.

Since neither of you smokes cigars at the rate he did (unless your Spurgeon sympathies are even more comprehensive than I am aware), you may well have even higher energy levels for even more years. May God grant it!”

Read more on John Piper’s blog.

Appropriately enough given what we were speaking about yesterday, this month an important new book was released by Crossway. Entrusted with the Gospel is based on expositions of 2 Timothy and has a broad range of contributors. Here is what I said about it, I encourage you to go buy a copy and read it! Here is what I said about it:

“Piper, Ryken, Driscoll, Copeland, Chapell, and Duncan are very different people, but they are all proven champions of the unchanging gospel of Jesus. This book will help all Christians study to be faithful to the task we have been entrusted with to spread that same message. Paul’s advice to his young apprentice Timothy is ably explained in these pages. Do your family, friends, and fellow church members a favor—read this book and apply it.”
—Adrian Warnock, author, Raised With Christ: How the Resurrection Changes Everything

There was a time when the definition of an “evangelical” was someone who liked John Stott and Billy Graham. Today, perhaps one could suggest that Don Carson has a similarly defining role, alongside people like John Piper. Certainly Carson’s books are well known and sell widely. He is recognized as a gifted expositor of God’s word and a sought-after conference speaker.

Scandalous is a short book closely based on a series of sermons Carson preached at Mars Hill Church in Seattle. It reads very much like a series of sermons. He chose five passages and exposited them verse by verse. The passages might initially seem like a surprising combination. But the theme underlying each of them is the vital place of the death and resurrection of Jesus.

It is great to see the resurrection given such prominence alongside the cross, even in the title of this book. My own book, “Raised With Christ,” was published in the same month, as well as Lifted by Sam Allberry. Both of these books argue that the resurrection has been neglected in our teaching and in Christian books. It is good, therefore, to see a man like Don Carson turn his gaze to this vital subject. Since Raised With Christ and Lifted are both more thematic, this series of expositions would complement them nicely.

Carson’s exposition of Matthew 27 focuses on the ironies of the cross. How could the King of kings be mocked? How could the one who appeared so powerless in truth be the most powerful being of all? How could the one who seemed unable to save himself save others? How can a cry of apparent despair come from the one who trusts God more than any other man?

He then argues that Romans 3 is the center of the whole Bible, showing clearly, but succinctly, how God can both be just and the one who forgives sinners like you and me. These few pages explain a truth so foundational it could easily be assumed, but has, over the last few years, become once again a subject of intense debate in Christian circles.

Carson then turns to Revelation 12, which he says shows the “strange triumph of a slaughtered lamb.” Christians can overcome rage because of the death of Jesus and because Jesus is now alive and standing at the right hand of God interceding for us.

The story of Jesus raising Lazarus (John 11) shows Jesus’ response to death. Carson shows that it is not wrong to weep and be angry about the effects of this unwelcome intruder into God’s world. Christians are allowed to grieve, just not in the same way that those without hope do. The scandal of Jesus delaying when he heard of Lazarus’ sickness is an example of how God lovingly wants to teach us patience and perseverance through our troubles.

All our hopes stem from the resurrection of Jesus. Carson chooses to focus on a poignant moment for his final exposition. The cynical Thomas encounters the risen Jesus in John 22. There can only be one outcome of such a meeting. Thomas is transformed into the faith-filled declarer that this Jesus who was once just a crucified corpse is now the risen Lord, and to be worshiped as Lord and God.

This little book is a great introduction to Carson himself, to these wonderful passages, and to the glorious truths of the gospel. Like the other books being published this year about the resurrection, Carson’s book will leave you hungry for more. Why not make 2010 the year you begin to come to grips with all the glorious implications of Jesus’ death and resurrection by reading several of these books?

There are short books, and there are really short books. From the Resurrection to His Return is a really really short book!  This book is, however, a very engaging, but brief, exposition of some very important verses about how we should live in what the Bible calls “the last days,” i.e. the time before Jesus’ return.  Jesus is coming and we must be Bible-focused people who pass on the unadulterated message of God to those who come after us. This book is definitely worth the very short time it will take you to read.  The really great news is that right now you can order it for less than 2 British pounds from 10ofthose.com, but hurry, as the offer only lasts for another day.  At that price you could easily ask them to ship it to you overseas.

I can exclusively announce that the all-new and FREE Gospel Coalition Network website opened just a few minutes ago. The kind people running it have offered blog readers like you the chance to be first in line to join.

If you already know what this is all about, then feel free to just follow one of the links below depending on which continent you’re on, since this genuinely is a global offer. Don’t worry, you will have access to the whole community no matter where you live. Then, do feel free to mention this on your own blog, or view my profile and add me to your contacts to follow my updates. You can also join a group to discuss the resurrection and help me choose my book cover!

To join, simply follow the links:

Don began by explaining the importance of considering context of bible verses by using the phrase “there is no God.” Which of course is not an advocacy of atheism when seen with the preceding phrase “The fool says in his heart”

The Good Samaritan is not merely saying that we should be kind to neighbours. We need to consider this in its immediate context and in its broader context. The teacher is trying to test Jesus and asks Jesus what he need to do to inherit. Yet an inheritance is a gift. The question is flawed. So Jesus doesn’t just respond immediately. Jesus has quoted the same two passages elsewhere, when he is asked what is the most important commandment in the law. Jesus answers with not only the most important commandment but the second also. Loving God and loving neighbour is just the appropriate response to God having created us. The first commandment is simply not to commit idolatry. That commandment is broken any time any other is broken. Many of the commandments in the Old Testament end by saying “I am the LORD” So all moral behaviour is grounded in this. The lawyer now wants to turn these two commandments into the way to get eternal life. The lawyer wanted to Justify himself just like the lawyer in the story Jesus told about prayers in the temple. It is in this context that Jesus tells us the parable of the Good Samaritan. The priest didn’t want to get “unclean.” The Levite similarly didn’t act. We must understand how much Samaritans and Jews did not like each other. The Jews looked down on them as half-breed people who had only got a half-baked version of the true faith. The Jews had destroyed their temple.

The law asked who is my neighbour. Jesus asks, who is behaving like one. It is not a question of who I must love. Rather it is how I must behave. For whom are you a neighbour? The lawyer couldn’t even bring himself to answer that it was the Samaritan, saying instead “the one who showed mercy.” Jesus then says, “Go and do likewise” The unspoken question is “Now do you want to justify yourself?” Like all of the commandments, these golden rules cant save you. If the only way to get eternal life is to love your neighbour and God in this way then you are dammed and so is everyone else. We must rejoice that our names are written in heaven. That is the only way for us to be grounded in our identity in Christ.

The Good Samaritan is Jesus himself. He comes to us in our brokeness and despite the fact that people despise him, he is the one who pays the entire tab so we are paid. The real question is not “who is my neighbour” but “who has been neighbour to me in all my lostness” Jesus took up his cross for us and uniquely bore our sins in his bodies. Jesus does want us to also take up our cross. He left us an example. We are saved by faith alone, but as the reformers saw, genuine faith is never alone. Some people want our lives to be the ground on which we are entering. No, the grounds are only what Christ does. It is only that which qualifies us to enter heaven. Even as a forgiven Christian, I am a wretched failure. I will be changed by God, but that is not part of the reason for him deciding am acceptable to him. Newton says “I am not what I ought to be, I am not what I want to be. I am not what one day I will be but I am not what I was, and by the grace of God I am what I am.”

The gospel is an announcement of what God has done. We preach the gospel and the effects of the gospel. It is not about moralising. It is what God has done, and yes it does have implications but those are distinct from the message itself.

Is Jesus just saying that there will be a reversal of what happens on earth? Is it “Live well, end up in hell?” There are some contextual clues that suggest this is not the case eg. “Whoever can be trusted with little, can be trusted with much.” “No one can serve two masters” Money easily becomes a master. We become what we worship. What we pursue, we covert. Luke 16:14-15 Pharisees were sneering at him – they tilted up their noses. God knows the heart. What people highly value is detestable in God’s sight. Our parable is the third in a series. The prodigal who wastes his fathers possessions, servant his master, and man his own.

There is a contrast made between two different men. Simple structure. Rich man is living extravagantly, the Lazarus is in pain. Then in heaven the opposite happens. The rich man was self-indulgent. Rich cloth.Feasted every day. Lazarus means the one who God helps. God’s reckoning of who he helps has a longer time span. Lazarus was carried to heaven.

The rich dammed man was digging a deeper hole. He doesnt have the decency to approach Lazarus. Rich man cannot imagine giving up his self-importance.

There is no hint that people in hell repent. Lazarus didn’t say anything. That is wisdom. Those who want to go from heaven to hell cannot. In the narrative the only one who that could have referred to is Lazarus. He was feeling compassion, unlike the rich man. Rich man is still only concerned about his family. If Lazarus can’t be a table waiter, perhaps he can be an errand boy. Rich man was not a Sabbath observer as he was eating well every day. Rich man then tries to correct Abraham’s theology. If someone goes from the dead goes to them, a Lazarus comes out of a tomb, then they will repent. Many did believe when another Lazarus came back to life, but the authorities wanted to kill Lazarus. When Jesus returns fromt he grave, still many will not believe. The devil himself believes that Jesus rose from the dead but that is not saving faith, transforming faith, trusting faith.

Things in which we take so much pride – wealth, ethnicity, religious privilege, education may blind us to our need of grace. We must reject false formulas which link the blessing of God with something that we cherish.

What Jesus calls the greatest two commandments stand or fall together. Can’t love God without loving neighbor.

We must listen to the witness of Scripture of we are dead. There is a new heaven and a new earth to be gained. The book points to Jesus and his death and resurrection. We will be changed in our we treat others. We want to relieve human suffering in this time and also in eternity. No good to feed the poor now, and tell them nothing about their eternal future. But, must also help them in this life.

The enjoyment that will be ours in heaven and earth. The rich man lifts his eyes in torment in hades. Jesus says more about hell than anyone. When we glimpse this we will sometimes find ourselves weeping for the lost. We will appreciate the cross even more. Flee from the wrath to come.

Okay . . . I know how it is. Some of you are still resisting Facebook’s steady march towards assimilating the world’s entire population. I want to try to convince you otherwise!

Recently someone I don’t know all that well asked me a question on Facebook about the gospel. Perhaps this means I should list “evangelism” as the ninth reason to use Facebook, which should actually rate it of greater importance than any of those I have given below.

So here goes . . . six out of the eight reasons why you should join Facebook are because you will then be able to watch videos of a conversation between Tim Keller, John Piper, and Don Carson. It’s worth joining just to share in this outstanding conversation!

• A Conversation: Tim Keller, John Piper, and D. A. Carson (1 of 6)
• A Conversation: Tim Keller, John Piper, and D. A. Carson (2 of 6)
• A Conversation: Tim Keller, John Piper, and D. A. Carson (3 of 6)
• A Conversation: Tim Keller, John Piper, and D. A. Carson (4 of 6)
• A Conversation: Tim Keller, John Piper, and D. A. Carson (5 of 6)
• A Conversation: Tim Keller, John Piper, and D. A. Carson (6 of 6)

What are my other two reasons? First, you can join the Facebook group “Friends of adrianwarnock.com” and meet other readers of this blog and discuss matters of mutual interest.

Second, you can join Blog Network and find other Christian blogs to read.

UPDATE
You can watch the Newday promo video right here:

If you are looking for more, or your tastes don’t follow mine, Tim Challies also has a list of conferences. There are more conferences still to come this year, but I have also listed some 2009 events.

AUGUST 2008
Newday — Older children and teens conference run by Newfrontiers. Join several thousand young people to worship God and hear his Word.

Together at North — Newfrontiers gathering in the North York Moors.
Contact: north@teesside.org

Together at Borderlands — Newfrontiers Bible weekend in Wrexham.
Contact: eric@rugeleycc.org.uk

Together at Mid UK — Being held in Shuttleworth.
Contact: mailto:mailto:

Together at Wessex — in the New Forest Showground.
Contact: mailto:mailto:

Celebration NorthWest — USA Conference, including Terry Virgo.

SEPTEMBER 2008
The Power of Words and the Wonder of God — The Desiring God National Conference with John Piper, Mark Driscoll, Bob Kauflin, Sinclair Ferguson, Paul Tripp, and Daniel Taylor.

OCTOBER 2008
Together at East of England — Meeting at the Pontins Pakefield Holiday Centre, Suffolk.
Contact: mailto:mailto:

Acts 29 Boot Camp, St Louis

NOVEMBER 2008
Front Edge South West, Winchester.
Contact: office@lifesouthampton.org

Acts 29 Boot Camp, Dallas

JANUARY 2009
Together at London and Surrey, January 23-25, Butlins, Bognor Regis.
I will be there with hundreds of people from Jubilee Church, London and many other Newfrontiers churches. We will take over the whole site for a Bible weekend.
Contact: togetheratbutlins@hotmail.co.uk

Acts 29 Africa Boot Camps

FEBRUARY 2009
Life in the Spirit — “Where reformed theology meets charismatic experience.”
UK conference with Sam Storms, Steve Brady, David Carr, Gavin Calver, and Bernard Thompson. Usual attendance approximately 200.

APRIL 2009
New Word Alive
Next year Carson and Virgo return, and there are two weeks — March 30 – April 4, 2009, and April 4 – April 9, 2009. Spaces are likely to sell out, so get yourself booked in soon.

JUNE 2009
Celebration Midwest
Dates not yet confirmed, so watch this space for this USA conference …

JULY 2009
Together On A Mission 2009 will take place from July 7th to 10th. Book this holiday now!

Celebration Northeast
Dates not confirmed, but watch this space for details of this USA conference …

This is the second part of a two-part interview with Don Carson, which began yesterday. That segment can be read here. I previously shared the video of this interview here.

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Adrian
So obviously from your own story, and also in your current role, you must have seen lots of people come through that path. Do you have any thoughts about how the Church can best develop its future leaders, or how, indeed, those people who might be beginning to feel similar stirrings to you, all those years ago—how do we turn somebody who is keen on God’s Word and might show some potential into a future preacher or future leader?

Don
It’s hard to answer that in just a few sentences. 2 Timothy 2:2 insists that senior people ought to be looking for junior people who will prove faithful in passing on the gospel yet one more round. And that means inevitably that they should not only challenge them as to what they are going to do with their lives, but provide them some venue for service, some test of gifts, some beginning ministry, supervise them, mentor them, challenge them. Not just say to them, “Go and give a talk here,” but work on the talk with them, listen to it, offer critique, make sure they are growing, give them things to read, put them in situations where they’re outside their comfort zone and have to bear witness to this sort of thing, see if they grow and are flourishing spiritually and mentally. And then with time, discerning people will begin to see if there really is potential there, and the individual himself may begin to see this as part of God’s gifting and calling. I do think we ought to be more proactive in tapping people, while still recognizing that finally the thing must be confirmed by God himself. Yet, nevertheless, if 2 Timothy 2 means what it says it means, then it seems to me we ought to be a little more proactive than we have sometimes been.

Adrian
Yeah, I guess that’s right. It’s interesting that so far you haven’t mentioned seminary at all in that. Do you see that as more “down the line” then? That it’s not just a question of pick someone, send them off to Bible college, and you’ve got an instant Church leader then?

Don
Well, a seminary can’t guarantee that. A seminary can contribute very powerfully some of the components that are there. As I said earlier, there are not many local churches that can give you a really good grounding in Church history, Greek and Hebrew, good exegesis, disciplined reading of the text, and so on. Not many. And the accumulation of a good number of former pastors and missionaries and so [forth] on one campus—you can pick their brains in all of these areas. That’s got to be really important. But some of it is learned on the street. In the Anglican system, that works out in curacies and so on, and ideally it works out in the independent system with assistant pastorates and so on. But even before they go, ideally they should have some exposure, some testing. And that might work through being a staff worker at UCCF or it might be in the context of a local church. But by and large, I’m not too keen on someone working, let’s say, in computer science flat out, and suddenly saying, “I’m called of God. Let’s go.” It’s usually a little more complicated than that.

Adrian
Right.

Don
And ideally, there needs to be at least some testing and growth within the context of a disciplined mentored ministry first.

Adrian
Yes, okay. Is there anything that you think that guys like you can do to help those pastors who, for whatever reason, haven’t been educated at a Bible college, and now they’re right in the midst of preaching every week. How do you see that? I know it’s difficult sometimes to say, “All right church, I’m off!”

Don
Yeah. There’s no automatic formula. There are some people who are so gifted by God that they can be self-taught and do an excellent job. Who is going to throw stones at a Martyn Lloyd-Jones? But it would also be wrong to think that Martyn Lloyd-Jones is the typical person. There are a vast majority of ordinary ministers who are going to do a lot better if they can have some time for disciplined study. But, on the other hand, if the force of circumstances makes that sort of thing impossible for fiscal or other reasons, then there are a lot of things that can be done. For a start, the English language, above all languages on the earth, is blessed by resources—books, magazines, both in print and now increasingly on the Net—the resources are fantastic actually. So what you need ultimately is some mentor or guide to steer you into the right sort of list, the right sort of priorities—You read this, then you read that, and then you read something else, and so on—and that, of course, was what Wesley did with his young men. He had a list of fifty books that he expected all of his trainee preachers to read and so on.

Adrian
Do you have a list like that yourself?

Don
I don’t have a personal list, but I’ve often created them for individuals in particular circumstances.

Adrian
You prefer to . . .

Don
To custom make it in some ways. But, increasingly, there are often courses online, too, and maybe weekend or night school courses that are available in a place that’s within driving distance. There are a lot of different patterns that are available today in one fashion or another.

Adrian
Sure.

Don
So, for those who are willing to be disciplined enough to take the time and really work at things, setting aside a day a week, or a day and a half a week, for something other than preparation for the next talk and visitation and all of that. Yeah, it’s possible to get quite a lot of upgrading in the context of your own study.

Adrian
Right, excellent. And I guess, even a conference like this is helpful to somebody to come and be exposed to teachers a bit more than they perhaps would in their local church.

Don
It’s part of it. There is a danger at these conferences. You hear a man with a gift of a John Piper, and you will inevitably come away blessed, and you’ve met with God, and that’s a great thing. But on the other hand, most of us are not going to be John Pipers. So it’s also possible to come away feeling a wee bit, in some sense, discouraged or threatened, or “I can never do that!” So it’s important to get the right thing from these conferences. At conferences, in the big marquees, the ordinary pastor does not normally have a voice. And I think that it is important to learn faithfulness in ministry, fully recognizing that most of us will be ordinary pastors . . .

Adrian
Very good!

Don
. . . and learn to be faithful in that frame of reference. Which, of course, is why I wrote the book on my dad. It wasn’t that I was trying to write a big critical biography. It’s not that. Get the right priorities, the foundations, in terms of faithfulness, what ministry means, what discouragement looks like, what suffering looks like, and so on, and the joy of the Lord within that matrix, or else you will have a romantic view of the ministry that is almost certainly going to lead to discouragement.

Adrian
I guess also there’s a lot of people here as well who will never be ministers.

Don
Yes, of course.

Adrian
What would you say to them?

Don
Well, in an event like this, it’s just like a different question in terms of training. At a place like this, the people are going to get somewhat different things out of it. The huge number of students are being exposed to teaching, Bible training, their own student tracks, and the encouragement of meeting with a whole lot of other students, and so on. Some come from small CUs, and just to have a thousand students together is itself a huge blessing. And some come from really small churches likewise, where to have about three or four thousand people singing at the same time and hearing the Word of God—all of that is itself a great encouragement. So there’s not only the content, there’s the sense that “This is the Church of the living God.” And God is calling out his people. They’re not to be discouraged. These are the foundations. This is right. And rejoicing in God in all of his context. It can be an enormous encouragement and anchor, and even vision for what could be for the future. For all of those things, too, we need to be thankful to God.

Adrian
Yes. So, for anyone who is watching this on the Net thinking, “Should I come to New Word Alive next year?” — what would you say to them?

Don
Well, I’m not a very good salesman. What I would say is that if you want to have a serious week of serious Bible teaching that is, nevertheless, full of corporate worship and meeting of new friends and an opportunity to pull aside and read and think, as well as listen and study and learn, I’m sure this would be a week well spent.

Adrian
Thanks very much for your time, Don. I know you’ve got to prepare for the next talk. Thank you for joining us.

Don
My privilege. Blessings on you.

I had the great privilege of talking to Don Carson in April at the New Word Alive Conference, when this interview was recorded. I have already shared the video of the interview here.

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Adrian
Hi! I’m Adrian Warnock. I blog at http://adrianwarnock.com/. and I’m also privileged to serve as part of the leadership team of Jubilee Church in London. I’m here at New Word Alive, together with Don Carson, who has kindly agreed to answer a few of my questions. Thank you for joining us, Don.

Don
My privilege.

Adrian
Excellent. So, Don, you’re obviously a busy man. You do all kinds of things—write books and lecture, and all the various things you do—and yet you, and John Piper, and later this year, Mark Driscoll, all sorts of American guys keep coming over here. Why do you think that is? Why do you come?

Don
The Church of Christ is world-wide at the end of the day, and partly because of Trinity’s reach, we serve many countries, and partly because of my own roots over here (I lived here for nine years, my wife is English), and partly because there is a camaraderie in the ministry itself. Not only do we come here, but there are a number of Brits who come to where we are, and then we might even meet up in Kuala Lumpur. That’s the way the Church is, increasingly. There’s a global reach, and we lean on each other, gain support from each other, and try to bring glory to Christ in different ways in different parts of the world.

Adrian
Fantastic. Well, we’re certainly glad you’re here. I have very much enjoyed listening to your talks. What’s your impression of the conference as a whole?

Don
The buzz I’m hearing (but I’m the outsider) is that people are really grateful for the Bible teaching, not only in the big sessions, but also in a lot of the seminars and so on. After John’s material last night, for example, on suffering, there was one woman in a wheelchair who said that she had found this one of the most encouraging things she had ever heard in her life, and the whole conference is worth it just for her, isn’t it?

Adrian
Yes!

Don
And then when you realize there are five thousand people who are receiving blessings from God from his Word in one way or another, it’s something for which to be incalculably grateful.

Adrian
Yes. I guess there’s no real substitute for gathering people to hear God’s Word, is there really?

Don
That’s right. That’s right.

Adrian
Whatever context it’s in. And it’s interesting because I’ve just been talking to John, who obviously gave up theological life to become a pastor. And I guess you’ve devoted your life to training pastors. Is that a fair way of describing it?

Don
Yes. I started off in pastoral ministry. He started off with theological . . .

Adrian
So you did it the other way around?

Don
I went the other way around. And there are dark moments when I wish I hadn’t. But you can’t second guess either yourself or God all the time. It’s not right. But about fifteen years ago I almost left Trinity to go to a church. It was a church near a major university and I wanted to do the sort of thing that John is doing. I had two or three senior men in the ministry, both already at that time in their early 70’s, descend on me and tell me in very authoritarian terms that I just must not do it because they were afraid that if I did I wouldn’t reserve enough time to do some of the writing I was doing.

Now whether that’s right or not, I don’t know. You offer yourself up to God and try to do what’s right. But I would say that the front line is the local church. And there is a sense in which seminary is a back-up slot. The front line is the local church, and the first impetus towards ministry and towards stamping people for what ministry ought to be should be within in the context of the local church. And then a good seminary, a good theological college, helps to provide the kind of training and further exposure to more technical knowledge, a grasp of the languages, and this sort of thing. Virtually no local church can provide that, and yet it’s really important for those who teach in such places, nevertheless, to be pastors first, because if they think of themselves of teachers and scholars first, then they tend to produce teachers and scholars. So there’s a stamping, not simply from the course material, but from your own values, what you dream about, what you think about. So, at our seminary, we always want to hire a certain percentage of faculty who wish they were in the pastoral ministry, or else quite frankly, we don’t want them. Now, they have to be academically competent and all the rest, but we don’t want people who just want to be in a seminary. We want people who in many ways would prefer to be in the local church. So, that’s as close as I can come to explaining where I’m at.

Adrian
Oh, that’s good. So, of all the many books that you’ve written, Don—this is again a question I asked John about his books—but of all the books that you’ve written, what would you say would be the most important two or three books—the ones that perhaps people should start with reading, let’s say?

Don
I have no idea how to answer that because people find books are important for different reasons. So for some people working through the front end of post-modernism, the 1996 book or whatever date it was, The Gagging of God, they found very helpful at the time. On the other hand, widely read by pastors was my John commentary, for example. I just don’t know how to answer that sort of question.

Adrian
I guess it’s what fits that person.

Don
That’s right. And as you say—What should they read first? Well, an awful lot depends on who they are. If they’re a lay person, [they] might start off with a book like Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount or something like that. I just don’t have a formulated answer for that. For pastors today who are in small churches and sometimes feel discouraged and wonder if their life is worth it, what I’d now recommend is the one that came out just a month or two ago called Memoirs of an Ordinary Pastor. It’s short—only 160 pages— and it’s really on my dad. He was a quintessential, ordinary pastor in many ways. He never preached in another country. He never wrote a book. He was never a conference speaker or the like. Most of the congregations most of his life were 30 people. But he exemplified faithfulness in some pretty grueling circumstances. He nursed my mother through the Alzheimer’s years. He was a church planter cross-culturally moving from the English to the French side of Canada, and had a passion for faithfulness in all kinds of small ways. Yeah, it’s not so much a critical history as a collection of our memories of him and a lot of his diary entries and so on as he struggled with these kinds of things and tried to be faithful in small corners.

Adrian
I’m guessing that he was probably one of the main influences on you growing up and into ministry, was he?

Don
Not directly. When I left home I had no intention of going into the ministry. In some ways I was closer to my mother. Nevertheless, his pattern certainly has stamped me. But I started off in chemistry and mathematics. I had no intention of going into the ministry. That came about by other things. But, undoubtedly, in all kinds of subliminal ways I scarcely recognized, his pattern has affected me. But it wasn’t a kind of direct thing—“Oh, I want to be like Dad!” sort of thing. It wasn’t that at all.

Adrian
So who did influence you most to make that kind of jump from chemistry to theology?

Don
That wasn’t a single step either. I worked in a research lab in Ottawa for the federal government in air pollution. I discovered that the people in this lab—I had a good budget, I had a good project, I enjoyed what I was doing—but most of the people in the lab were either resenting it and waiting for retirement or, alternatively, chemistry was their god. And I didn’t fit in either camp. I was enjoying it, but at the same time another chap and I were trying to start a Sunday School in a new church in the upper valley, and that became more and more important to me as time went on. I remember a chorus that I learned as a boy playing out in my mind again and again:

By and by, when I look on his face,
Beautiful face, thorn-shadowed face;
By and by, when I look on his face,
I will wish I had given him more.

And in that autumn, I heard a sermon from a man—I think I’ve only ever heard him preach two or three times—a sermon on Ezekiel 22, where God says, “I sought for man to stand in the gap before me for my people, but I found none.” And God used that in a powerful way in my life so that I wanted to cry with my whole being, “Here am I, send me!” But none of that was planned.

Another earlier step was the minister of the church I was [attending] in Montreal said that he wanted me to be his assistant one summer. And I said he had confused me with a theological student—I was chemistry. I never did go and do it, but it was the first time I started thinking about it because some minister had tapped me on the shoulder and said I ought to be thinking about it. So there were many different things that God used providentially to woo me away from chemistry and science and towards vocational ministry.

Continued in part 2 . . .

UPDATE
The written transcript of this interview is now available and can be read here.

In the second part of my interview with Don Carson we spoke about how to prepare people to serve as leaders and preachers in the Church. We spoke about the place of seminary, and about those who, like Martyn Lloyd-Jones, serve without spending time there. We also spoke about conferences, and the importance of recognizing that most of us are just going to be ordinary Christians. You can view part 1 here.

My video interview with John Piper will begin on Monday.

UPDATE
The written text of this interview is now available. You can access it here.

The following video was filmed at New Word Alive in April of this year, when I had the opportunity to speak with Don Carson. We spoke about his reasons for coming to the UK, about how he chose to leave the field of chemistry to become a pastor and then left pastoral ministry to train ministers in a seminary, the crucial importance of the local church, and his relationship with his father.

My interview will conclude tomorrow with part 2.

Jonathan Leeman has kindly transcribed some of the key points about seminaries and churches:

• “The front line is the local church, and there’s a sense in which the seminary is a back up slot.”

• “The first impetus toward ministry and toward stamping people for what ministry ought to be ought to be within the context of the local church.”
• “A good seminary, a good theological college, helps to provide the kind of training, and further exposure, more technical knowledge, grasp of the language, this sort of thing, that virtually no local church can produce.”
• “Yet it’s really important for those who teach in such places, nevertheless, to be pastors first, because if they think of themselves as teachers and scholars first, then they tend to produce teachers and scholars. So there’s a stamping not simply from the course materials, but from your own values, what you think about, what you dream about.”
• “So at our seminary, we always hire a certain percentage of faculty who wish they were in the pastoral ministry or else, quite frankly, we don’t want them. Now, they have to be academically competent and all the rest. But we don’t want people who just want to be in a seminary.We want people who, in many ways, would prefer to be in the local church.”

Carson closed the conference with his final talk on 1 John. I was home by this time, but I was able to listen to it over the weekend. You can do the same by ordering CDs from the New Word Alive website. I will share some short notes of it here.

Because of his love for us, we should love others. If people can’t see God, they can see his love operating in us as we love one another.

In the previous talk, Don spoke of three tests—the truth test, the love test, and the obedience test. But, in fact, the three are connected—you can’t have one without the other.

If you are born of God, it’s because you recognize who Jesus is. If you recognize your sibling, you will love them, and you will want to do what Jesus says if you love him. In the New Testament, faith is not merely a subjective opinion or a synonym for religion. Biblical faith is a belief in the truth. We also trust and abandon ourselves to the risen Christ. We have to pass all three tests, not focus on one or two of them.

Transformed Christian living plays a role in Christian assurance—the “we know” words of 1 John.

We should be careful about how we lead people to assurance. The medieval Catholics said it was pride to think you were sure. Luther claimed that if you didn’t have assurance it meant that you did not really have faith adequately—so if you strengthen your faith it will become assurance. Calvin did say that the Spirit would bear witness. Also, in 1 John we see some grounds. Calvin did say that the cross is by far the strongest place we should go for assurance. The obedience test will never be sufficiently fulfilled in us as we will always feel we have failed and/or will trust in our own works. There is the confirming work of the Spirit. Genuine Christianity perseveres, and the change attests the reality. If there is no change, you should question the reality of your faith. There is matchless assurance for all Christians whose eyes are fixed on the cross and who show some evidence of change.

What do you long for and are most passionate about? Whose approval do you most seek? What gives you greatest joy? What would you most complain about losing? Carson urged us to keep away from idols, and to devote ourselves to God and following him.

I will share slightly briefer notes than usual on this morning’s talk—my fingers are getting tired!

Don Carson began his talk on 1 John 3 by making a claim that it is actually only because of the Bible that religion and morality were first strongly linked together. It is only because of Christianity that our culture believes that we should be consistent in our behavior. Sin is broad. Sin is not just lawlessness, it is also a lack of faith that you will be able to not do something you want to do. Because law is of God himself, breaking the law is devaluing God. But, of course, we cannot claim to not sin—even as Christians.

In the first century sonship was both familial and behavioral. Most sons and daughters ended up doing what their parents did. If your father was a baker, you became one. Jesus became a carpenter because his dad was a carpenter. So, for example, when Jesus says that people are “children of the devil,” he means that we are so much like the devil it is as if the devil is our father, not that demons mated with our mother! Therefore, in order to be called a “child of God,” we must act like the children of God. No one who is born of God sins. This is in the present tense, and it sometimes has the force of continuity, so we often translate it as “we don’t continue to sin,”—i.e. we cannot go on sinning. We tend to soften this to become “we cannot practice sin.” There is some truth to that, but we should not soften the sharpness of John’s language. John is shockingly stark in what he says.

There are grades of sin, but it is all of the same stuff. There is a stark choice between this and the life to which Christ has called us—that of laying down our lives for others like Jesus did. We should love, and not love merely with words, but with our actions. If we pray and also watch porn, how can we expect an answer?

We are then told to test the spirits. In the Old Testament, one of the tests was whether something that was said came to pass, but also whether it was consistent with Scripture. Christians can be easily gullible. We don’t always discriminate and exercise discernment. We have to recognize that people and movements are sometimes mixed bags. We need to sift and weed out what is unhelpful, but accept the good.

We see that in the context of denying Christ’s coming in the faith by the gnostics, the key test to discern spirits was whether they believed Jesus came in the flesh. What is interesting is that elsewhere in the Bible there are other tests—for example, if the spirit declares “Jesus is Lord.” So often what is being denied in different generations varies. We need to be careful that we understand and are clear about issues that are being denied in our generation.

We recognize the spirit of truth by those who are “with us.” This can be dismissed as merely a sectarian spirit. No, we are speaking about the gospel which was taught by the first Apostles. John is one of those initial Apostles.

The tests of obedience, love, and truth are strong. Nowhere are they stronger than in verse 9. John is saying that we cannot sin if we are born from God. Yet in chapter 1 he has already said that if we say we haven’t sinned then we make God a liar. It’s not that we cannot sin, it is that it is inappropriate for us to sin. If we sin, we should not excuse it, but go for forgiveness. We should fight against it.

Don Carson began by talking about the many ways in which the love of God is spoken about in the Bible. We are both always loved by God and commanded to keep ourselves in the love of God. We must not over-emphasize either of these. The Bible speaks about the love of God being general and sufficient for all. And it also speaks about the love of God being specific to those who are elect. Christ loved the Church and intentionally gave himself for her. It is definitely for those who are his people by eternal choice. But it is also, as here in 1 John, “for the sins of the whole world.” We cannot make absolutes of one or the other. It isn’t enough to say that here all is all without distinction rather than all without exception. No, here it says Christ’s death was for the whole world. God did die particularly and specifically for his people (see, for example, John 6), but here the emphasis is on the potential benefit for the whole world.

Don then read from 1 John 2.

We see here in this chapter a number of antitheses.

1. The first contrast is obedience versus disobedience. The test here is not feelings, but obedience. There are a number of verses where John says, “We know that we know him.” Don will target all of these together on the last day to look at Christian assurance. Is it God’s love for us that is completed by obedience? Or is it our love for God that is demonstrated by obedience? If we are a friend of Jesus we will do everything he commands us. Knowledge and experience have their place. But high intellectual or mystical claims without corresponding obedience are just spiritual humbug. We can’t claim to be in him unless we live like him.

2. The second contrast is between love and hate. Jesus did not avoid the cross. Through his love, he suffered for us. We must follow him. We do live in a battle, but if there is no love, how can we claim to be of God?
3. The third contrast is between God centeredness and man-centeredness. Christians come to know God, not because we earned it, but because we have been forgiven. People fritter away their lives running after other things. Whether old or young, it is shocking not to be focused on God. God loves sinners not for their evil. We do not love the world in the sense of admiring their sin. We are meant to love the world in a missionary sense. It is not that we are to hate creation. It’s just that we are to despise sin and godlessness. What we treasure will then determine where we end up. So treasure God and he will draw your heart. What do you talk about with friends? This world is passing away.
4. The final contrast is between Christians and antichrist. “The last times” characteristically refers to the entire period of Church history, i.e. between Christ’s first and second comings. Jesus is already reigning. This is the age of conflict. Christ and antichrists, which can be both against Christ or in place of Christ. There are those who claim to be redeemers. Teachers are not special mediators. Carson explained that he is not teaching because he is a special Levite.

There is only one way to God. We are either in or out. We are either on the rock or the sand. We must keep coming back to the cross. Eternity is drawing us.

As regular readers will know, this week I am swiftly working through the glorious doctrines of grace—the so-called “TULIP.” Today we reach the Limited Atonement item which is, in my opinion, the most misunderstood, and the item with possibly the most nuances needed in our understanding of it. As such, it will get the largest number of quotes so far.

I found a couple of interesting quotes in a post and comment section that asked, What does Mark Driscoll mean by limited/unlimited atonement?. The first came from D. A. Carson in The Difficult Doctrine of the Love of God (Wheaton, Illinois: Crossway Books, 2000, pp. 73-79).

“I argue, then, that both Arminians and Calvinists should rightly affirm that Christ died for all, in the sense that Christ’s death was sufficient for all and that Scripture portrays God as inviting, commanding, and desiring the salvation of all, out of love . . . Further, all Christians ought also to confess that, in a slightly different sense, Christ Jesus, in the intent of God, died effectively for the elect alone, in line with the way the Bible speaks of God’s special selecting love for the elect . . . “

—D. A. Carson

The second can be found in a pdf about Limited Atonement by Bruce Ware in which he outlines an alternative to what is usually seen as classical Calvinism and classical Arminianism on this point:

“God’s intentions in the death of Christ are complex, not simple; multiple, not single:

1. Christ died for the purpose of securing the sure and certain salvation of his own, his elect.

2. Christ died for the purpose of paying the penalty for the sin of all people, making it possible for all who believe to be saved.
3. Christ died for the purpose of securing the bone fide offer of salvation to all people everywhere.
4. Christ died for the purpose of providing an additional basis for condemnation for those who hear and reject the gospel that has been genuinely offered to them.
5. Christ died for the purpose of reconciling all things to the Father.”

I thought I would finish this post by linking to a page on Mars Hill Church’s website where Mark Driscoll and others can be heard explaining their take on limited/unlimited atonement, which is either what all true Calvinists basically believed all along or an Arminian heresy, dependent on your perspective!

As I write this, Together On A Mission has started. Perhaps like me, at the moment you can’t be there and wish you could be. (I am looking forward to getting there soon though!). Perhaps you are there and enjoying it so much you are thinking that next year you would like to go to two Chrisitan conferences. If so, my friends at New Word Alive can help you out.