Over the last few days there has been a fair amount of discussion online about the interview I link to below.  It is a conversation between two people whom I both consider to be my friends.

Mark Driscoll, the sometimes controversial pastor of Mars Hill Church, Seattle has done much to advance the cause of Christ, and for that I am very grateful to God.

Justin Brierley’s Unbelievable?  radio show and podcast provides a unique opportunity for people from different wings of the church, and also those outside of Christianity altogether to actually listen to what one another believes. It is so important to do this rather than constructing straw men.  Justin’s show has proved to be an invaluable evangelistic forum, and one on which I have appeared twice, a debate with Rob Bell and on the resurrection with a liberal pastor.

I should therefore begin by saying that I love both men involved.  I do feel that the interview is well worth listening to for the following reasons:

1. The interview covers much more than just the segment that has sparked controversy, and there are helpful sections on Driscoll’s recent book (the first twenty minutes or so), the growth of Mars Hill Church, and a number of doctrinal questions. These two men come from different worlds, and it is perhaps not surprising that the meeting of those worlds results in interesting radio. I am sure that both men, although different in their approaches, came to the interview with good intentions.
2. It is vital that we hear the main point that Driscoll is making, that British preachers should be more bold. It is never nice when people make generalizations, but Driscoll is right that we in the UK have too many apologetic preachers.  Driscoll is angry at times largely because he has been gripped by the cause of Christ. I sometimes think we would loose more than we would gain if Driscoll was to become more measured in what he says.
3. It is good to hear the whole context of something before passing  judgement.  So for example later in the interview Driscoll is very kind about British Christians, and in particular Newfrontiers (around 40 mins in). But then I suppose “Driscoll says British Christian group is doing a great job” doesn’t make such a good headline, does it?

My conclusion is that both men involved are a gift to the Church, and as I have often said before, you do not have to agree on everything someone believes or says to benefit from listening to them.

As Driscoll himself put it, “I go too far sometimes, almost every other pastor I know doesn’t go far enough.”

You can download the MP3 here or visit the Unbelievable? website to listen to this entire interview.

I know Rick Warren is something of a controversial figure and I have blogged previously about why I like him.  Here is an interesting post from Driscoll which shows the kind of person Rick is:

I first heard from Pastor Rick Warren perhaps a few years ago. He said he wanted me to fly down to a conference he was hosting, hang out, and get some time together. So, I did, along with a few friends. We learned a lot from Rick and his staff. They were incredibly nice, showed us around, and seemed genuinely willing to do pretty much anything to help us organize our growing church. I even had dinner a few times with Rick, along with a few other guys, and got to ask some questions about dealing with critics and leading a large, complicated organization.

At some point on my first trip to Saddleback Church, I asked Rick why he had reached out to me. With grief on his face, he said that some years prior he had made a list of young pastors he was praying for and thought might be used by God to serve the greater Church. However, over the years he had crossed off the list those pastors who had disqualified themselves through acting sinfully or believing heretically. Over half the list was out of ministry. But I was one of the guys still on the list. So, he was praying for me, concerned for me, and wanted to extend a hand to help me in any way he could. He was very kind, and very genuine.

Since then, he has been faithful to call me now and then just to check in and see if he could encourage or serve me in any way. Every time he calls, I’m amazed because despite how very busy he is, his genuine concern for pastors compels him to encourage many.

- READ MORE at  A Few Stories About Rick Warren | Pastor Mark.

Mark Driscoll has now gathered all his web content into one site, and will be adding some more theological and practical content from him and his family. Sounds interesting, check out pastormark.tv Here is an extract from the introduction:

Through various posts, I’ll cover the theological and the practical, doctrine and life, what Christians believe and how Christians behave, and the text of Scripture and context of life. The big idea is that we need both a theology of something (e.g., marriage, parenting, sex, joy, suffering) and a reality of that thing. Theology alone is not enough, as for example, plenty of guys have written marriage books but have miserable wives.

This website will also include some humor likely focused on Emergent Christians who finger paint their doctrinal statement, anyone who is certain they know the details surrounding the end of the world because of some math equation based upon the bulls’ testicles verses in Leviticus, and religious nutters with so many extra-biblical rules that even the Pharisees would be confused.

My family will contribute
And, I’m happy to have my family join me. Grace, my wife of 19 years, will be writing here as well. She will be focusing on issues related to being a Godly woman, wife, mother, and friend—things she’s particularly passionate about. She is very sweet and helpful, and will help balance out my occasional moods.

And, our oldest daughter Ashley, who is now entering high school, will be writing as well. She’ll be doing book reviews for young girls and talking about practical ways to grow spiritually as a teenage girl. Her heart is to encourage young women to follow Jesus. As our other four children get older, they may write some too—we’ll have to wait and see.

This morning Terry Virgo tweeted “Thanks @PastorMark for your courage & clarity in motivating us in Newfrontiers to move forward. Here we go!”  He was of course referring to the time Driscoll came and lobbed a few grenades in our direction.  Driscoll urged us to pray for Terry that he would know the right timing to hand over this movement.  He actually said “to a man, or men,” though most of us heard it as to a single man.  This week, Terry is handing over Newfrontiers but not to a single man, but rather to a group of men that are considered to be emerging as apostles.  Rather than a single sphere, this will now be a band of brothers, many of whom are in effect movement leaders in their own right.  Through this expansion, surely we will by God’s grace be enabled to increase the rate of church planting, which was one of Driscoll’s challenges to us.

Driscoll’s impact has been felt in another way.  He urged us to put more things in writing.  It was never going to be our style to write a statement of faith as such, but now there are a growing number of books that explain our values and practices. I cannot remember a time when so many new books by Newfrontiers writers have been made available.  A number of them are released this very week.  If you are someone who is peripherally aware of us, you could do worse than starting with reading Spirit-filled Church.

It is astonishing that at the heart of the Christian message of good news lies a death. Of course this good news is only so because of the resurrection, as I argue in my book, but today lets remember the horror of the cross, and how that very shocking nature of the death of our Lord, compels us to pay attention:

Mark Driscoll writes,

The curious paradox of the atoning death of a bloody Jesus rising above the plane of human history with a mocking crown of thorns is that he is offensive in an attractive way. It is the utter horror of the cross that cuts through the chatter, noise, and nonsense of our day to rivet our attention, shut our mouths, and compel us to listen to an impassioned dying man who is crying out for the forgiveness of our sins and to ask why he suffered. Tragically, if we lose the offense of the cross, we also lose the attraction of the cross so that no one is compelled to look at Jesus. Therefore, Jesus does not need a marketing firm or a makeover as much as a prophet to preach the horror of the cross unashamedly. (Listening to the Beliefs of Emerging Churches, 33, emphasis added)

Now that Rob Bell’s controversial book Love Wins is on sale on both sides of the Atlantic and many other comments have been made, I am feeling like I cannot avoid engaging in the controversy, or at least should read some more material to understand it better. I did not seek out such involvement, as you can see from my post which ironically listed Five Reasons I hadn’t previously blogged about Rob Bell. Since then I have posted a couple of highly relevant articles without directly addressing Bell’s work.  These are:

• Why a belief in hell is so practically important (John Piper)
• The folly of imagining hell is not real and sin is not deadly (Charles Spurgeon)
• Mark Driscoll’s sermon on hell taken from the Rich Man and Lazarus.
• Martyn Lloyd-Jones on the folly of thinking God is only love.

I have now found a very helpful round up post on Gary David Stratton’s blog that lists some of the major posts on each side of this vociferous debate. He says that over 400,000 responses are now available online, so reading every post is clearly not an option! I have been following some of the posts he lists, and have finally succumbed and am in the process of reading the book. If you have been following things more closely, and there are critical posts you think I should read that are not on Stratton’s list, please let me know. There is one additional page that I have found to be interesting, a transcript of an interview by Lisa Miller with Rob Bell.

Finally, also in Stratton’s blog is a suggestion that we should use the Apostle Paul’s blogging checklist. I have adapted this somewhat from his version, which he took from 1 Corinthians 13.  I commend this list as we consider blogging about this issue or others. For not every blog post on either side of this debate has kept within these wise boundaries. So, before you hit send, grade yourself on this list:

Is this blog post I am about to publish

1. Demonstrating patience towards those who disagree with me?
2. Kind in its tone and content? Would my “enemies” agree?
3. Free from envy in it’s motivation? Rather than secretly wishing I was as popular as the person I am condemning?
4. Full of humility and not boasting? Rather than implying I have all the answers and the monopoly on the truth?
5. Wanting others to do well and highlighting good comments elsewhere rather than arrogantly seeking more hits for my blog?
6. Polite and not rude?
7. Not insisting on my own way? Have I acknowledged that there is a chance, however small, that I might be wrong about this?
8. Calm and not irritable?
9. Avoiding even the hint of sounding resentful?
10. Rejoicing with the truth, rather than taking joy from pointing out others error? Have I struck back at those who have been hurtful to me or brushed over and endured any perceived wrongs from them, have I thought the best of others?

If you cannot honestly answer yes to all of these bold questions, it is time to save the draft, pray, go and make yourself a cup of tea, and come back to re-edit the post later. There is a time for boldly speaking the truth.  But we must always do so in love. The above checklist is demanding.  It requires careful examination of our hearts.  We will all no doubt fail at times to follow it fully.  I know I have.

Fortunately there is grace for us, as well as opportunities for public repentance when needed!  I believe that none of us can have the insight into our own sinful hearts to fully achieve such high standards on our own. I do thank God that I have people who watch over both my soul and this blog and are not afraid to point out when they feel I have erred.  I trust that you also have those who can help you to follow Jesus online.  May God help me, and each of you to blog as Christ would want us to, and to treat others online as we would want to be treated.  Those of us that love grace must be sure to demonstrate it to others.

In a recent sermon on Heaven and Hell based on the shocking parable of the Rich man and Lazarus found in Luke 16. Driscoll was at his pastoral and passionate best. His love for his hearers, and desire to warn them of important truth is very clearly seen in this talk. I think it is one of his best sermons. He speaks about the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, and how between heaven and hell, “a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass . . may not be able, and none may cross.”

You have to ask yourself, do you agree with Jesus Christ on this subject?

I urge you to follow the link and read, hear or watch the sermon, or at least see the following clip which addresses a very topical question. It is important you know where you stand on this matter:

Imagine if you will two of the great giants of our day, Driscoll and Virgo, sitting in a lounge chatting about leadership. Interested? You should be! Every Christian is meant to be a leader, at least of himself or herself! Preferably of others too. You may not have a position of official leadership, but you are meant to be an influencer. In this video Driscoll explores some areas that have struck him whenever he has been in a Newfrontiers context. It is good to see a man who has been as successful as he has still wanting to learn from others. You really should devote 10 minutes or so to watching this video and see what it is that Driscoll wants to learn from Virgo. It was Driscoll’s home, so it is him asking the questions. It is possibly one of the best clips I have seen to introduce you to Virgo if you don’t already know him. But even if like me you have known of him for decades, this clip will still teach you something new. It also demonstrates the genuine warmth and affection these two anointed leaders have for each other.

You can also sign up for the free Driscoll Leadership Coaching program to get access to the video, although there was a link to a low res version shared in the Resurgence feed. In fact the other videos in this series look like they will be worth watching also.

I encourage you to consider joining us at the next 300 Leaders conference where Terry Virgo will be the speaker.

Appropriately enough given what we were speaking about yesterday, this month an important new book was released by Crossway. Entrusted with the Gospel is based on expositions of 2 Timothy and has a broad range of contributors. Here is what I said about it, I encourage you to go buy a copy and read it! Here is what I said about it:

“Piper, Ryken, Driscoll, Copeland, Chapell, and Duncan are very different people, but they are all proven champions of the unchanging gospel of Jesus. This book will help all Christians study to be faithful to the task we have been entrusted with to spread that same message. Paul’s advice to his young apprentice Timothy is ably explained in these pages. Do your family, friends, and fellow church members a favor—read this book and apply it.”
—Adrian Warnock, author, Raised With Christ: How the Resurrection Changes Everything

In November you can hear Driscoll, Stroud and Chester talk about God’s culture-transforming heart here in the UK.   Visit their website for more information or watch the video below:  Redeemer Central | Redeem:Cities 2010.

Mark Driscoll is at his very best in the following clip. Ever wondered how family and mission entwine, especially in a growing church where you don’t know anyone? Ever wished for more intimacy and a greater relational feel in your church? Ever felt neglected and rejected in your church? Ever felt like your church was not your home? Watch this clip and be prepared to be blown away. I love the way he begins: Family is a category of relationship that the world knows nothing about. What’s better than friends? Family. It’s a huge painful annoying mess, family is awkward, trying and hard, but you love the family, and you serve the family, and you don’t give up on family. This sermon speaks about our need to find a way to contribute to our church. commit to it, and connect to a small group. Christians must change from being consumers to being active participants in the mission of God. When you are contributing to something, you will feel connected to it.

The full sermon this clip comes from is available from the Mars Hill Website.

This weekend I thought I would share a list of my top Twenty Five videos ordered by total number of views. As you can see, one of my Chandler videos has already jumped in above Mark Driscoll in second place. Terry’s fantastic sermon on prayer is way ahead of that one even, however. I enjoyed filming or watching all of these videos. Why not watch one or two you have missed?

1		Elijah Prays For Rain Tue Jun 23, 2009
2		Matt Chandler on being a reformed charismatic without much of a seatbelt Thu May 13, 2010
3		Mark Driscoll and Adrian Warnock talk about the resurrection Mon Mar 29, 2010
4		Mark Driscoll and Adrian Warnock talk about Doctrine Tue Mar 30, 2010
5		1st Canon EOS 5D Mark II Video Wed Mar 25, 2009
6		Raised With Christ: How The Resurrection Changes Everything Thu Oct 22, 2009
7		A Call To Prayer For Matt Chandler Thu Dec 03, 2009
8		Keith Getty – Co-Writer of In Christ Alone Thu Apr 09, 2009
9		Stuart Townend Interview Tue Apr 07, 2009
10		Dare To Believe God For Miracles – Tope Koleoso Thu May 14, 2009
11		Nathan and Lou Fellingham of Phatfish Sun Apr 05, 2009
12		Elijah Prays Part Two Wed Jun 24, 2009
13		EOS 5D Mark II Testing Rode Videomic and iMovie Fri Mar 27, 2009
14		Interview With Liam Goligher Thu Apr 09, 2009
15		Wayne Grudem on Politics and the Christian Sat Apr 24, 2010
16		Richard Cunningham at New Word Alive Tue May 12, 2009
17		Matt Chandler Interview on London, Newfrontiers, and “Prayer and Fasting” Thu May 13, 2010
18		Interview with Vaughan Roberts Sat Apr 11, 2009
19		Sam Storms Interviews Adrian Warnock Wed Feb 03, 2010
20		Wayne Grudem on Atonement, Unity, Rick Warren and John Piper Thu May 06, 2010
21		Matt Chandler on the call to ministry Thu May 13, 2010
22		Sam Storms On Pastoring As A Reformed Charismatic Wed Feb 03, 2010
23		Sunrise Over Welsh Mountains Mon Apr 13, 2009
24		Wayne Grudem on whether God’s revelation has really stopped or not Sat May 08, 2010
25		Matt Chandler on why he IS friends with people on his staff Thu May 13, 2010

The following video follows on from my recent interview with Driscoll where we focused on the resurrection. In this session we explore some areas of his latest book, Doctrine, that stood out to me, or where I had questions for him:

Mark Driscoll and Adrian Warnock talk about Doctrine from Adrian Warnock on Vimeo.

Very unusually today, I interrupt my working day to bring you some perfect lunch time reading I found on my break which is very apt and timely.  The following review of a forthcoming Mark Driscoll book entitled Sweetheart was posted today at Word and Spirit. The following extract makes very interesting reading:

In this book, Driscoll explores what it means to be a “real man”, lamenting the fact that too many Christian guys have got completely the wrong idea about how they should behave. He exposes the lie that manhood is somehow all about courage and strength, and calls us to lay down the tough guy exterior to reveal your “inner sweetheart”.

The book is organized into three main sections, each exploring a different facet of biblical manhood:

1. Crying

A moving chapter on John 11:35 demonstrates that real men cry. Lots. He tells the tragic story of one pastor who was so hard-hearted he remained dry-eyed right the way through Sleepless in Seattle. He explains how in choosing Peter, himself a cry-baby (Matt 26:75), Jesus shows the type of sensitive soul that he is looking for in church leadership.

2. Caring

The way some people talk, you might think that being a man is all about feats of strength and endurance, winning wrestling matches or climbing mountains. But Driscoll shows that the real way to be a man is to care for beauty. Those men closest to God have always enjoyed what some might consider “girly” interests. He illustrates this with examples of Calvin’s love for poetry, Stott’s love for bird-watching, and Don Carson’s gift for interpretive dance.

3. Cowering

One of the real problems with being a macho man, is that by confronting problems you could get hurt. And God doesn’t want any of his little preciouses getting hurt, does he? Driscoll shows how the great masculine heroes of the Bible knew when to run and hide. The great apostle Paul set the example for us by hiding inside a basket rather than facing up to his opponents (Acts 9:25).

Of course, the greatest example of what it means to be a man is Jesus. Driscoll unpacks from Matt 12:19-20, the need to avoid conflict, speak quietly, and have gentle and soft hands (he recommends this hand cream).

READ MORE at Book Review – Sweetheart (Mark Driscoll).

Oddly, there is no news of the release date of this book.  I am just going to have to pout all afternoon because of my jealousy that I wasn’t sent a pre-release copy.

Driscoll has recently released another book co-written with Gary Breshears, Doctrine. In this video interview filmed yesterday we speak about one chapter of that book, “Resurrection: God Saves.” You can read this chapter for free online. Driscoll has previously endorsed my own book and I have interviewed him in person and over email.  There is a second part of this interview that I will share after Easter.

Mark Driscoll and Adrian Warnock talk about the resurrection from Adrian Warnock on Vimeo.

Mark Driscoll shares the following 6 Preaching & Teaching Tips for Easter | TheResurgence. He urges Christians to bring their friends to church this weekend.  In the full article he makes a point which should be obvious: this Sunday you MUST speak about the resurrection.  Strangely, I have even heard reports in the past of Easter sermons which focused on the cross and neglected  the resurrection. Please don’t do that next Sunday!

Easter is a special time for me for all the reasons I mentioned over the weekend, but also because in the weeks before Easter 2007, while I was in the center of major arguments which were raging online about the meaning of the cross, I felt the gentle tug of the Holy Spirit to begin to study the resurrection.  Raised With Christ is the direct result of my being convicted of my own personal neglect of the resurrection while preparing to preach that Easter Sunday.  May God bring the resurrection to the center of all our minds this Easter. Driscoll says:

Easter is a time to boldly, loudly, passionately, gladly, and publicly proclaim the resurrection of Jesus Christ . . . Hearing the good news of Jesus is something your people will delight in if the Holy Spirit resides in them, so make it plain. They know you will tell them Jesus is alive, they are coming to hear it, and it sounds good every time, much like a wife whose husband often tells her he loves her and is devoted to her—she never tires of hearing it and rejoices every time.

Driscoll lists a number of passages which are suitable for preaching about the resurrection and recommends that if you are a preacher, as well as taking some time out to be with Jesus personally this week, you should read a good Christian book on the good news to help you prepare your own heart. There are, of course, a few books around about the resurrection at the moment, and Amazon does next day delivery. The reason for this is that we must be mastered by this message if we are to proclaim it as we should.  As Driscoll puts it:

I like to think of those people who have shed tears over sin they have committed and sins that have been committed against them and picture Jesus wiping every tear from their eye on the other side of resurrection as Scripture promises. I like to think of those people I know who are disabled one day being free to run and leap for joy on the other side of the resurrection. And I remember the deceased whom I love and I look forward to seeing them again on the day when we rise together to walk into the kingdom that never ends.

Here are Driscoll’s six tips for preaching on Easter Sunday which he more fully explains in his article:

1. Keep your Easter message short.
2. Keep your Easter message simple.
3. Keep your Easter message invitational.
4. Keep your Easter message special.
5. Keep your Easter message personal.
6. Keep your Easter message biblical.

Driscoll also encourages churches that it is a great idea to “baptize people to show the personal application of the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ in our place for our sins. At Mars Hill, we baptize more people on Easter than any other time of the year. . .The celebration of changed lives erupts into something of a sanctified resurrection party. I would encourage every pastor to do something similar.”

At Jubilee Church, London we will also be baptizing people this Sunday.. If you attend our church, there is a baptism class this evening at 7:30 PM in the Premier Bar for anyone wanting to add their name to the list of those being baptized.  I close this post by sharing an outstanding sermon about believer’s baptism and the breakthrough it can bring in our spiritual lives.  Dave Pask preached this message yesterday at Jubilee:

download video or download audio

“Jesus is alive! And, as my friend Adrian Warnock will help you learn, this fact changes everything for everyone.”

To our delight at Jubilee a few years ago a few different people who were visiting commented about our church, that it seemed to them to be “all about Jesus” rather than some other things church could be about. There is a song we have sung many times over the years that expresses the same idea “It’s All About You, Jesus”. So, when the leadership team couldn’t seem to find a fancy “mission statement” for the church, it was decided we would simply use the phrase “It’s all about Jesus” wherever such a statement would usually be. Somehow it seems appropriate, and Jesus is surely what every church should be all about.

I understand Mars Hill Church have been using the same catchphrase for quite a while, also. This summer they are taking it further, and having a series simply called “It’s All About Jesus” and why this concept defines them as a church. Looks interesting. Here is a video preview:

Pastor Jamie Munson is the elder who runs Mars Hill Church where Mark Driscoll is the preaching elder. He filmed Joel Virgo, lead elder of CCK Brighton and others from that church greeting Mars Hill on his recent visit to Brighton. HT: Mars Hill Blog

Brighton CCK from Mars Hill Church on Vimeo.

A message to Mars Hill Church from Pastor Joel Virgo and other folks at Church of Christ the King in Brighton, England.