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	<title>adrianwarnock.com &#187; The Atonement Debate &#8211; Chalke book</title>
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		<title>THE ATONEMENT DEBATE &#8211; Steve Chalke&#8217;s Further Arguments Against Penal Substitution</title>
		<link>http://adrianwarnock.com/2008/11/atonement-debate-steve-chalkes-further/</link>
		<comments>http://adrianwarnock.com/2008/11/atonement-debate-steve-chalkes-further/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 03:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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				<category><![CDATA[Atonement]]></category>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adrianwarnock.com/2008/11/the-atonement-debate-steve-chalkes-further-arguments-against-penal-substitution/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is the last in my short series on Steve Chalke and The Atonement Debate. The previous posts in this series can be found by clicking on the links below: Update on Steve Chalke and The Atonement Debate Steve Chalke Confirms He Does Not Believe in Penal Substitution Steve Chalke Argues Against Penal Substitutionary Atonement [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p></p><p>This is the last in my short series on Steve Chalke and <em>The Atonement Debate</em>. The previous posts in this series can be found by clicking on the links below:</p>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://adrianwarnock.com/2008/11/update-on-steve-chalke-and-atonement.html">Update on Steve Chalke and The Atonement Debate</a></li>
<li><a href="http://adrianwarnock.com/2008/11/atonement-debate-steve-chalke-confirms.html">Steve Chalke Confirms He Does Not Believe in Penal Substitution</a></li>
<li><a href="http://adrianwarnock.com/2008/11/atonement-debate-steve-chalke-argues.html">Steve Chalke Argues Against Penal Substitutionary Atonement</a></li>
<li><a href="http://adrianwarnock.com/2008/11/atonement-debate-steve-chalke-and.html">Steve Chalke and Neglect of the Resurrection</a></li>
</ul>
<p>In his chapter of the book, <em>The Atonement Debate</em>, Steve Chalke continues with a classic argument from silence. He claims that Jesus did not teach this doctrine himself and therefore it is questionable. <a href="http://www.oasisuk.org/subsection.asp?id=3772"><img src="http://cdn.adrianwarnock.com/wp/wp-content/media/2008/11/Chalke5-7046351.jpg?65aa6a" alt="" hspace="20" vspace="20" align="right" /></a>He also argues that before Jesus’ death he would not have had any gospel message to share if PSA is true. The second aspect of this is easy to dispatch since it betrays a very linear view of time. Romans 3 makes clear that it was Jesus’ death that enabled God to overlook sins committed beforehand. In addition, I have often wondered what Chalke believes about hell. Jesus teaches a lot about hell, and a number of his parables refer to eternal suffering. Surely he is describing the problem he is about to solve in doing this. Also, at the climax of his ministry the necessity of his death is very clear to Jesus, and his words describing it as a cup he must drink are poignant. If PSA is not true, it is difficult to see how Jesus’ death was so absolutely necessary. In any case, Jesus did not have to directly teach this doctrine in order for it to be true.</p>
<p>Chalke tries to negate concepts of God’s anger by essentially claiming that God is defined as love, and that fact trumps any mention of God as a God of wrath and anger and presumably holiness. He then devotes an entire section to the cultural implications of PSA, which he says plays into notions of violence and “might is right,” from which the rest of the world is moving away. He also claims it is too individualistic. In fact, in this section he seems to be in danger of removing altogether the importance of the individual’s relationship with God. There is even a statement that he does not like the notion that someone can believe they are saved in an instant, claiming that “separates salvation from discipleship” (page 42). It is vital for us to separate salvation from discipleship, or legalism and justification by works is the result. We do not live good lives in order to be saved. I have long been suspicious that removing the doctrine of penal substitutionary atonement inevitably weakens our belief that it is Jesus who saves us in favor of the notion that we have to do something in order to earn our way to heaven. Without fully expressing this, Chalke certainly seems to be implying it. He does not clearly elucidate his views on justification here, however, so I need to be careful, but remain very curious about the implications of what he is saying.</p>
<p>Finally, and perhaps most helpfully, in his closing section Chalke explains what he has put in the place of PSA. Basically he believes in the Christus Victor model whereby it is the victory won by the death and resurrection of Jesus that is key to our salvation. But before he gets there, he makes a clear statement about attempts to “soften” PSA, some of which he believes are even present in <em>The Atonement Debate,</em> to which he is a contributor.</p>
<blockquote><p>“Since my book was published, and in the serious theological debate that has followed it, some have sought to readdress their definition of penal substitution. I have witnessed various attempts to redraw, redefine, recast, remodel, and rehabilitate the theory as “not really as violent and retributive a concept as <em>The Lost Message of Jesus</em> suggested.” But the problem is simply this: this is not how the situation is perceived either within or beyond the church. So, whilst I applaud these attempts to manufacture a kind of “penal substitution theory lite”—some of which will, no doubt, be presented in other contributions to this book—in my view, what we need is not a reworking but a renunciation” (page 42).</p></blockquote>
<p>Chalke and I do agree on at least one thing. PSA should not be softened. We should either reject it completely as he is calling for, or, as many millions have, accept it as a precious truth despite all its shocking gruesomeness.</p>
<p>If you would like more information about the atonement, I would recommend the book <em><a href="http://piercedforourtransgressions.com/">Pierced for Our Transgressions</a></em>, or you could read through my previous atonement series in the links found in the following posts from my bog,“<a href="http://adrianwarnock.com/2007/12/review-of-blog-april-2007-atonement.html">Atonement Wars</a>” and “<a href="http://adrianwarnock.com/2007/12/review-of-blog-may-to-june-2007-more.html">More Atonement Wars</a>.”</p>
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		<title>THE ATONEMENT DEBATE &#8211; Steve Chalke and Neglect of the Resurrection</title>
		<link>http://adrianwarnock.com/2008/11/atonement-debate-steve-chalke-and/</link>
		<comments>http://adrianwarnock.com/2008/11/atonement-debate-steve-chalke-and/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 03:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>adrianwarnock</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Atonement]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Evangelical]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Neoliberalism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Resurrection]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Steve Chalke]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[The Atonement Debate - Chalke book]]></category>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adrianwarnock.com/2008/11/the-atonement-debate-steve-chalke-and-neglect-of-the-resurrection/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In his arguments against penal substitutionary atonement (PSA), Chalke parodies what its advocates believe, claiming that, according to those who hold to PSA, . . .it is Jesus’ death alone that becomes our “good news.” This approach reduces the whole gospel to a single sentence: &#8220;God is no longer angry with us because Jesus died [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p></p><p>In his arguments against penal substitutionary atonement (PSA), Chalke parodies what its advocates believe, claiming that, according to those who hold to PSA,</p>
<blockquote><p>. . .it is Jesus’ death alone that becomes our “good news.” This approach reduces the whole gospel to a single sentence: &#8220;God is no longer angry with us because Jesus died in our place.” Indeed, that is exactly why evangelistic presentations based on penal substitution often do not even bother to mention the resurrection; for them it serves no purpose in the story of salvation (page 39).</p></blockquote>
<p>We need not accept the accuracy of Chalke&#8217;s parody to be stung by its application, at least in part. It is a fact that at times evangelicals neglect to talk about the resurrection and other aspects of what the cross accomplished for us. In fact, Christians should believe that the gospel is about both the death and resurrection of Jesus, and that the work of Christ is about more than only satisfying God’s wrath. For starters, regeneration requires something to be done to us right here and now, and surely our gospel presentations need to explain this. And it is important to stress that there are other aspects of the atonement itself, and in this Mark Driscoll has served us well <a href="http://adrianwarnock.com/2008/10/death-by-love-pastoral-application-of.html">in his book, <em>Death By Love</em></a>, which outlines in letters to church members the different aspects of what the cross accomplished.</p>
<p>If Chalke was merely calling for us to remember to emphasize all the aspects of what Jesus accomplished for us, then I would say <em>Amen!</em> to that. Indeed, it was in part because of my own study of all these issues, which was in turn prompted by the Steve Chalke controversy, that I began to feel compelled to write about the resurrection. So perhaps in some sense this whole argument is the background within which the idea for my book, provisionally entitled <a href="http://adrianwarnock.com/2008/11/i-have-book-contract-with-crossway.html">The Resurrection Empowered Life</a>, arose.</p>
<p>The key thing here is—even if we acknowledge some neglect of other aspects of Christ’s work for us—that is no reason to deny the truth of Jesus’ wrath-absorbing death on the cross. We should heed Chalke’s calls to look at everything Jesus has accomplished for us, but ignore his desire that we reject any notion that he was punished for us. <a href="http://adrianwarnock.com/2008/11/atonement-debate-steve-chalkes-further.html">I will continue to examine Chalke’s reasons for his rejection of PSA tomorrow</a>.</p>
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		<title>THE ATONEMENT DEBATE &#8211; Steve Chalke Argues Against Penal Substitutionary Atonement</title>
		<link>http://adrianwarnock.com/2008/11/atonement-debate-steve-chalke-argues/</link>
		<comments>http://adrianwarnock.com/2008/11/atonement-debate-steve-chalke-argues/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 03:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>adrianwarnock</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Atonement]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Evangelical]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Hebrews]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Neoliberalism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Romans]]></category>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adrianwarnock.com/2008/11/the-atonement-debate-steve-chalke-argues-against-penal-substitutionary-atonement/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In his chapter in the recent book The Atonement Debate, Steve Chalke begins to argue against penal substitution (PSA). He starts in a surprising, and to me, a deeply concerning way. One of my major concerns about this whole debate is what a rejection of PSA does to our view of the Bible. The concept [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p></p><p>In his chapter in the recent book <span style="FONT-STYLE: italic">The Atonement Debate</span>, Steve Chalke begins to argue against penal substitution (PSA). He starts in a surprising, and to me, a deeply concerning way. One of my major concerns about this whole debate is what a rejection of PSA does to our view of the Bible. The concept of God’s wrath is very prominent in the Bible, culminating in the famous dilemma of Romans 3 where Paul essentially asks how can God be both JUST and yet FORGIVE our sin. In the context of Romans, to me that answer is simple—because Jesus took away that wrath and bore our punishment.</p>
<p>Chalke sidesteps the issue of the wrath of God by attempting to remove the issue of the sacrifices of the Old Testament from the discussion by claiming:</p>
<blockquote><p>“The emphasis on Yahweh’s apparent appetite for continuous appeasement through blood sacrifice, present within some Pentateuchal texts, is to be understood in the light of later prophetic writings as a reflection of the worship practices of the pagan cults of the nations that surrounded the people of Israel. However, the story of Israel&#8217;s salvation is the story of her journey away from these primal practices towards a new and more enlightened understanding by way of Yahweh&#8217;s self-revelation.” (page 38, <em>The Atonement Debate</em>)</p></blockquote>
<p>This quote is simply breathtaking coming as it does from the pen of a professed evangelical. First of all, it seems that Chalke takes a very different view of Scripture to that of the majority of evangelicals. The books of Moses are not to be contradicted by later revelation! These sacrifices were demanded by the actual audible voice of God recorded infallibly by Moses. Chalke&#8217;s comments only make sense if he doesn’t believe that the Pentateuch is actually God’s Word. Moses records that God did not merely “accommodate himself” to the local culture; he actively commanded sacrifice!</p>
<p>Of course it&#8217;s not just the Pentateuch with which Chalke’s comments seem to disagree. In his attempt to separate what Jesus did on the cross from biblical notions of sacrifice, one has to wonder what he would make of the book of Hebrews. On page after page the writer to the Hebrews directly connects Jesus’ death with that of the lambs and goats of the Old Testament sacrifices. Hebrews 9:22 says, “Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins” and clearly declares of Jesus in verse 26, “He has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.”</p>
<p>We can&#8217;t just airbrush out of the Bible the teaching that it is a wrath-removing bloody sacrifice for sin that is absolutely necessary in order that we can be saved. In his comments on the Pentateuch, Chalke seems to imply that he does not believe those passages to be truly God’s infallible Word, or at least he believes that those passages were contradicted later on. Would he view Hebrews in the same way? <a href="http://adrianwarnock.com/2008/11/atonement-debate-steve-chalke-and.html">We will continue to look at Chalke&#8217;s reasons for rejecting PSA tomorrow.</a></p>
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		<title>THE ATONEMENT DEBATE &#8211; Steve Chalke Confirms He Does Not Believe in Penal Substitution</title>
		<link>http://adrianwarnock.com/2008/11/atonement-debate-steve-chalke-confirms/</link>
		<comments>http://adrianwarnock.com/2008/11/atonement-debate-steve-chalke-confirms/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 03:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>adrianwarnock</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Atonement]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Evangelical]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[N. T. Wright]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Neoliberalism]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[The Atonement Debate - Chalke book]]></category>
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		<description><![CDATA[I do want to thank Steve Chalke for the honesty and openness in his contribution to the recent book, The Atonement Debate. He is very bold, and explains his position with far more clarity than I feel he has done before. Reading his chapter was worthwhile as there is much confusion about what Chalke really [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p></p><p><a href="http://www.oasisuk.org/subsection.asp?id=3772"><img src="http://cdn.adrianwarnock.com/wp/wp-content/media/2008/11/Chalke5-704635.jpg?65aa6a" alt="" hspace="20" vspace="20" align="right" /></a>I do want to thank Steve Chalke for the honesty and openness in his contribution to the recent book, <em>The Atonement Debate</em>. He is very bold, and explains his position with far more clarity than I feel he has done before. Reading his chapter was worthwhile as there is much confusion about what Chalke really believes. Indeed, many people, including N. T. Wright, have gone so far as to make pronouncements about <a href="http://adrianwarnock.com/2007/04/atonement-n-t-wright-attacks-both-sides.htm">what they are sure Chalke believes</a>. But in this book we find the answer to the question in his own words—What does Steve Chalke now think about penal substitution?</p>
<p>Firstly, he has not changed his mind about the appropriateness of his original use of the “cosmic child abuse” language which many found offensive. He says:</p>
<blockquote><p>“Though the sheer bluntness of my imagery shocked some, I contend that, in truth, it represents nothing more than a stark unmasking of what I understand to be the violent, pre-Christian thinking behind the popular theory of penal substitutionary atonement. Thus, whilst having great respect for many of those who hold what, I readily concede, is currently regarded as orthodoxy within modern evangelicalism, I will attempt to set out through this essay why I believe it to be biblically, culturally, and pastorally deficient and even dangerous” (page 35).</p></blockquote>
<p>One of the other key questions is this: Was N. T. Wright right to say that Chalke holds to a form of penal substitution that is similar to Wright’s own position? Here Chalke is very clear. He acknowledges that he does hold a “deep resonance” (page 35) with Wright’s position. But he claims that both his own and Wright&#8217;s understanding of the way in which the cross saves us is “so far removed from what is commonly taught” (page 35) that he does not like to use the word &#8220;penal&#8221; as representing his own position.</p>
<p><a href="http://piercedforourtransgressions.com/"><img src="http://cdn.adrianwarnock.com/wp/wp-content/media/2008/11/Christianbits-799166.jpg?65aa6a" alt="" hspace="20" vspace="10" align="left" /></a>Wright, it seems, is stuck somewhat in the middle of this. Do Chalke and Wright really agree as much as they both think they do? Is Chalke right to say that Wright’s view, which the prof calls a form of PSA, is actually not really PSA at all? To be honest, sometimes Wright can be hard to fathom and it takes great patience to dissect him fully in such a manner as John Piper did over <a href="http://adrianwarnock.com/2007/11/book-piper-on-wright-conclusion-what-is.html">Wright’s view of justification.</a> But Wright is not the subject of this post; instead, we are looking at Chalke’s own position.</p>
<p>Chalke agrees with Wright&#8217;s assessment of the book <a href="http://adrianwarnock.com/2007/06/interview-authors-of-pierced-for-our.htm"><em>Pierced For Our Transgressions</em></a> (PFOT) as “<a href="http://adrianwarnock.com/2007/04/atonement-n-t-wright-attacks-both-sides.htm">deeply, profoundly, and disturbingly unbiblical</a>” which, since it is a book upholding PSA in a clear and strong way, makes any claim that either Wright or Chalke actually do believe in PSA quite hard to stomach. [In my view, incidentally, PFOT is probably the single best book to read if you want to understand PSA more fully.] Chalke then goes on to explain why he does not believe in PSA as almost everyone would define it. <a href="http://adrianwarnock.com/2008/11/atonement-debate-steve-chalke-argues.html">Join me tomorrow as I interact with the arguments he uses</a>.</p>
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		<title>Update on Steve Chalke and The Atonement Debate</title>
		<link>http://adrianwarnock.com/2008/11/update-on-steve-chalke-and-atonement/</link>
		<comments>http://adrianwarnock.com/2008/11/update-on-steve-chalke-and-atonement/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 03:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>adrianwarnock</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Atonement]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[Neoliberalism]]></category>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adrianwarnock.com/2008/11/update-on-steve-chalke-and-the-atonement-debate/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Somehow I missed a book published earlier this year by Zondervan called The Atonement Debate. The book was described to me as a “cool-headed” approach to the whole debate on penal substitutionary atonement (PSA) that has been raging in evangelicalism since Steve Chalke popularized attempts to dismiss it as a form of “cosmic child abuse.” [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p></p><p><img src="http://cdn.adrianwarnock.com/wp/wp-content/media/2008/11/978-0-310-27339-4-790724.jpg?65aa6a" alt="" hspace="20" vspace="20" align="right" />Somehow I missed a book published earlier this year by Zondervan called <em>The Atonement Debate</em>. The book was described to me as a “cool-headed” approach to the whole debate on penal substitutionary atonement (PSA) that has been raging in evangelicalism since Steve Chalke popularized attempts to dismiss it as a form of “<a href="http://adrianwarnock.com/2004/11/steve-chalke-and-lost-message-of-jesus.htm">cosmic child abuse</a>.” It is essentially an edited and expanded publication of some papers from a theological debate which took place under the auspices of the Evangelical Alliance and the London School of Theology.</p>
<p>To be honest, when I heard this book was going to be “cool-headed” I was already concerned about it. I&#8217;m not sure the atonement is a subject that it&#8217;s possible to be terribly cool about. That&#8217;s because another word for cool is lukewarm. Jesus hates us to be lukewarm about crucial issues, even threatening to spit the lukewarm from his mouth (Revelation 3). I much prefer interacting with someone who is either hot or cold about important issues like this.</p>
<p>The truth is, there could scarcely be a more important subject. On the one side are people like Chalke who genuinely believe that many evangelicals today are teaching a barbaric pre-Christian lie that is destroying the Church’s witness. On the other hand are those of us who believe that if we were to deny that Jesus took the punishment that was due us for our sin, turning aside the wrath of God by bearing it in himself, quite simply there would be no gospel left.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t see how people who really believe either of those two positions can just agree to disagree and work together as fellow evangelicals. One group must be wrong. Whichever group is right are also clearly quite correct to be very concerned about the opposite group who are, by their false teaching, distorting the gospel and preventing people from coming to a true knowledge of what Jesus has done for them. There are some issues on which we can compromise. This is not one of them.</p>
<p>Accordingly, the first chapter, which tried to set the scene, concerned me greatly. It was written by a believer in PSA who acknowledged that the crafters of the UK Evangelical Alliance’s Statement of Faith had clearly intended to include PSA in that statement. Minutes of the meetings and the living memory of those survivors failed to explain why, in the 1970’s, the word “penal” had been dropped from early drafts of the statement. The writer seemed anxious to stress, however, that in his view it would have been wrong to insert the word penal back into the statement in its most recent revision as that would have been seen as targeting an individual. To be honest, I find such a reluctance baffling. I believe that clarity is exactly what is needed in this debate. Can people really work together in an organization with such diametrically opposed views as I have outlined above?</p>
<p>For some reason it fell to me to become more involved in the debate that had been ongoing within UK evangelicalism than I ever expected. It was a great surprise to me to find myself in the position where I felt obliged to break the story that <a href="http://adrianwarnock.com/2007/04/word-alive-and-spring-harvest-to.htm">the separation of Spring Harvest and Word Alive</a> had not been entirely amicable. What soon became clear was that this was not only an argument between Chalke and those who held to PSA. Almost more importantly, there was a disagreement between those who said that they hold to PSA about what should be done when a leading member of many evangelical organizations like Steve Chalke criticized their prevailing teaching so strongly. Many plead, “Can’t we just all get along and agree to disagree?” For more information about the controversy please see the links found in the following posts from my blog “<a href="http://adrianwarnock.com/2007/12/review-of-blog-april-2007-atonement.html">Atonement Wars</a>” and “<a href="http://adrianwarnock.com/2007/12/review-of-blog-may-to-june-2007-more.html">More Atonement Wars</a>.”</p>
<p>It would seem that <em>The Atonement Debate</em> is published with a desire to help evangelicals understand the debate and then move on from it. Indeed, the tone of most of the papers is conciliatory, and I suspect that one could easily come away after reading it wondering what all the fuss is about. I had assumed that Steve Chalke&#8217;s relative silence on the issue meant that he too had come to the conclusion that this didn&#8217;t really matter as much as both his original rhetoric and that of his detractors had led one to believe. I couldn&#8217;t have been more wrong, <a href="http://adrianwarnock.com/2008/11/atonement-debate-steve-chalke-confirms.html">as we will see tomorrow when I continue to blog on this subject</a>.</p>
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