The Newfrontiers Youth Conference, New Day has posted its audio sermons online for free. Lots of great things happened during the week from what I heard, so the messages are no doubt well worth a listen.

Also, a great introduction to the values of this group of churches can be found in the audio from one of the recent Newfrontiers USA conferences.

I concluded my interview with Dave Stroud by asking him about the church he leads in London. You can download the mp3 of the entire interview or listen to the last part here:

I continue this interview by asking about how someone who believes God is speaking to them about church planting can begin to prepare themselves within Newfrontiers.

No. 3 in the list of top 100 US cities being targeted by Newfrontiers is Chicago. I got a facebook message this week asking me if I knew of a Church there for a student visiting. Incidentally, do feel free to be my friend, join my blog network or even share and comment on my posts over at facebook

I was thrilled to be able to find that there is a newfrontiers church in Chicago. Not just any church either, judging by the website but one that has a clear vision of what they are trying to do judging by the following extract from their website which turned my head.

Yes, we're unashamedly Christian but don't freak out and click for something else. Let us tell you our story.

We're a community of everyday people who want to explore what it means to be a Christ follower in our everyday lives. We're real. Our faith is real. Our lives are gritty. We don't have all the answers but we're not afraid to work it out together - rooted in God's word. that's what it's all about!

We're a community, a part of the global village. we're talking deep dish pizza, hummus and pita breads, home baked lasagna, beans and burritos, hot dawgs and sauce. We eat Sunday dinner together as often as we can. We email and call each other during the week to stay in touch and when things aren't crazy busy we even hook up for a cup of coffee. We celebrate birthdays, go bowling, prepare meals for people in need, play Scrabble, watch movies, housesit, baby-sit, pack boxes when someone's moving house, and share our lives together. It's tough building community in the city but we believe Christianity is all about it.

We don't believe in fairy tales. We believe Jesus Christ really lived and walked this earth and chose to die for our sins. That's right, we see ourselves as sinners in need of his grace. We're talking repentance, hope, freedom, healing, grace, joy, truth, and most importantly love. So real. So refreshing.

We launched Fusion in East Rogers Park, Chicago, Il, in February 2006 but people travel from all over Chicagoland to be a part of our urban family - and friends and family visit us from different nations too. Sure, we're small. We're new. We're learning. We make mistakes. We say we're sorry. We reach out. We don't have a target market, anyone is welcome. We don't have all the answers. We're everyday people. And we're plugged into Newfrontiers, a family of more than 500 churches in over 50 nations across the globe.

We come just as we are - that's what Jesus is all about. We are unafraid to challenge stuff and, we live out our lives based on God's word. Yes, we believe its the inspired word of God. We don't pretend! We don't tell you what you want to hear. We are Christ followers and Christ seekers - together, on a mission. Everyday people exploring the true essence of Christianity and what it means in our everyday lives to be a Christ follower. READ MORE from this Chicago church.

This autumn a Worship School will be taking place on the south coast of England. Home of some well-known Christian worship leaders such as Stuart Townend, Phatfish, Paul Oakley, and Simon Brading, among others, Church of Christ the King is something of a worship center. This autumn, if you want to learn more about leading worship or playing in a worship band, why not sign up to attend training sessions in which they will all be sharing.

You can also join a Facebook group for worship leaders from around the world where you will be able to discuss things together as a group.

I found a way of embedding a flikr slide show here on the blog. I hope you like these photos from Driscoll's London trip.


Created with Admarket's flickrSLiDR.

This is the second and final part of my interview with Scott Thomas of the Acts 29 Network. You can download the audio of whole interview or watch the second part below. Part 1 can be seen here.

Scott speaks about how Acts 29 aims to help potential church planters.

The majority of the MP3s from Together On A Mission are now available direct from the Newfrontiers Resources page, or from the following summary posts I wrote during the week.

Session Summaries

• TOAM08 - Stephen Van Rhyn - Prevailing Under Pressure (Daniel)
• TOAM08 - Mark Driscoll: Doctrine of the Holy Spirit in Luke and Acts
• TOAM08 - Terry Virgo on Stephen (Acts 6-7)
• TOAM08 - David Stroud on 1 Samuel 14
• TOAM08 - Apostles and Prophets Together on a Mission
• TOAM08 - Mark Driscoll on the Missional Church
• TOAM08 - Mark Driscoll's Perspective On Newfrontiers
• TOAM08 - David Devenish - A Call to the Nations (Jeremiah 1)
• TOAM08 - Keith Hazell - Prophets and Prophets Together: A Fuller Picture
• TOAM08 - What Happens Between The Sessions
• TOAM08 - P-J Smyth on the Army of God (1 Chronicles 11-12)
• TOAM08 - Mark Driscoll on Missional Movements (Acts 1)
• TOAM08 – JOIN A CHURCH PLANT in a European City - Prayer Evening Report
• TOAM08 - Sam Poe & Phil Wilthew - Pastors and Prophets Building Together
• TOAM08 - Terry Virgo on Philip (Acts 8)

Other Posts About Together On A Mission

• Terry Virgo Appraises Mark Driscoll's Trip

• VIDEO INTERVIEW - Mark Driscoll, Part 1 - Prophecy and Newfrontiers
• VIDEO INTERVIEW - Mark Driscoll, Part 2 - A Prophecy For Newfrontiers and Worship
• VIDEO INTERVIEW - Mark Driscoll, Part 3 - Impressions of the UK
• VIDEO INTERVIEW - Mark Driscoll, Part 4 - Multiculturalism and Missi

• Together On A Mission 2008 - The Newfrontiers Conference

In case the title of this post completely mystifys you and you have not heard of this group of Christians, I have written previously about them in “What is a Reformed Charismatic?”

The phrase “1,000 reformed charismatic churches” has been going around in my head on and off for awhile now. Because several different applications of that number are running through my mind, I thought I’d share each of them with you here.

The first thought I had was simply this: although often considered to be a small minority, the number of reformed charismatics is increasing. I therefore wondered if there are now 1,000 reformed charismatic churches around the world? I suspect there must be. According to my interview with Terry Virgo, Newfrontiers is now nearing 600 churches, so surely there must be at least 1,000 if you add to that Sovereign Grace Ministries, Acts 29, and of course, other individual churches and networks, some of which, no doubt, I have not yet even heard about. (Incidentally, I'd particularly like to hear about any of you out there who go to a reformed charismatic church that isn't part of one of the three groups I just mentioned—drop me an e-mail at adrian.warnock@gmail.com.)

We probably can agree that there must be at least 1,000 reformed charismatic churches in the world. But are there 1,000 reformed charismatic churches in any individual country in the world? I doubt it very much. I am certain we don't have 1,000 such churches here in there UK. I would be very surprised indeed if there were that number in the USA.

But why do I mention 1,000 reformed charismatic churches when it comes to an individual country like the USA or the UK? In the UK, Newfrontiers now has 220 churches, which because we have 60 million people, works out to one church per 270,000 people. So, along with other groups, we have made some small impact, although surely there is still much work for us to do, even in the UK. But here is where it gets interesting. A church for every 270,000 people in the USA would work out to aproximately 1,000 churches. So I guess we have still further to go in America. I suspect, however, that there are many reformed charismatic churches in the USA which are not part of any network with which I’m familiar.

But the number 1,000 is featured in other ways as well. The Acts 29 Network's audacious goal is to plant 1,000 churches themselves over twenty years. I fully expect them to reach that goal given their current rate of growth. Also, a number of years ago a prophetic word led Newfrontiers in the UK to dare to believe God for 1,000 churches in our own nation. Within Newfrontiers meetings we often hear the challenging goal for church planting and growing large churches — “1,000 churches and churches of 1,000 people.”

Do we need lots of reformed charismatic churches? I believe we do. Firstly, we need reformed charismatic churches to show Christians that there really is a third option between arid intellectualism and brainless experiential showmanship. It’s not that the caricatures we tend to make of both cessationists and charismatics are entirely accurate; it’s just that churches that are unashamedly both reformed and charismatic can give confidence to others to make that plunge, or at least ensure they do not meet the caricature defining their end of the spectrum. I believe that it is a good thing to have different churches in any given town that can provoke each other and learn from one another.

But I also believe that reformed charismatic churches are often uniquely placed to become genuinely missional churches that can reach out and grow largely by salvation. We live in a culture that has, for the most part, turned its back on traditional church. Why shouldn’t we offer the world a church whose methods, music, style, and experience are totally up-to-date, but where the message remains old-fashioned and traditional in the sense of being solidly biblical?

One man with a vision to plant churches that will affect thousands of people is John Lanferman. He speaks of having on his laptop a list of the top 100 cities of the USA where 87 per cent of the people live. The cry of his heart is that 100 reproducing missional reformed charismatic churches be planted by Newfrontiers USA in those cities. Here's what he said about it in an interview with me. I had asked him what a missional church was:

“A church that understands that it exists for the express purpose of carrying the gospel to the next door neighbor, to the person in the next block, to the person in the next city, state, and nation, and they exist for the purpose of being carriers of the gospel. So they are involved, not only in proclamation, but they are involved in changing the whole culture of a community. They would be people who would be involved in cross-cultural evangelism. They would be people who would be involved in changing the social justice—be involved in that ministry to the poor—so they have a desire to see the whole community that they are involved with, the towns they are involved with, changed and made into a kingdom community. It’s people who understand, “We do not exist for ourselves, but we exist for them.” So the way we spend our money, the way we staff our churches, the way our churches feel, the way they operate, have that outward appeal. And it’s a God-centered approach to humanity rather than an inward, “What about me and my needs?” It’s a man-centered approach . . . If we can get outstanding churches in each of these 100 large cities, and out from that, begin to reproduce ourselves—because I’m fanatical on reproducing churches. We must not just plant churches, but we [want to] see churches that view themselves as reproducing churches multiply themselves, raise up leaders, give themselves away, spread out in the communities and the nations beyond."

— John Lanferman

Here is a list of those 100 cities. With the new sense of urgency in our movement following the Brighton conference, you could be finding a reformed charismatic church starting near you sooner than you think if you live in one of them. I would be only too happy to pass e-mails on to the relevant people if YOU live in one of these cities and would like to play a part in seeing this vision come to fruition. Attending one of our USA conferences would be a good first step.
Please join me in mentioning each of these cities before the Lord in prayer as you finish reading this post. May each of them soon have a reformed charismatic church. Actually, most of them will need more than one church given their size. This table shows three columns—the city, its state, and the population. In the last column, I will also gradually add links to Newfrontiers churches and church plants in these cities:

1	New York	New York	&0000000008250567.0000008,250,567
2	Los Angeles	California	&0000000003849378.0000003,849,378
3	Chicago	Illinois	&0000000002833321.0000002,833,321 Fusion Church, Chicago
4	Houston	Texas	&0000000002144491.0000002,144,491
5	Phoenix	Arizona	&0000000001512986.0000001,512,986
6	Philadelphia	Pennsylvania	&0000000001448394.0000001,448,394
7	San Antonio	Texas	&0000000001296682.0000001,296,682
8	San Diego	California	&0000000001256951.0000001,256,951
9	Dallas	Texas	&0000000001232940.0000001,232,940
10	San Jose	California	&0000000000929936.000000929,936
11	Detroit	Michigan	&0000000000918849.000000918,849
12	Jacksonville	Florida	&0000000000794555.000000794,555
13	Indianapolis	Indiana	&0000000000785597.000000785,597
14	San Francisco	California	&0000000000744041.000000744,041
15	Columbus	Ohio	&0000000000733203.000000733,203
16	Austin	Texas	&0000000000709893.000000709,893
17	Memphis	Tennessee	&0000000000670902.000000670,902
18	Fort Worth	Texas	&0000000000653320.000000653,320
19	Baltimore	Maryland	&0000000000640961.000000640,961
20	Charlotte	North Carolina	&0000000000630478.000000630,478
21	El Paso	Texas	&0000000000609415.000000609,415
22	Milwaukee	Wisconsin	&0000000000602782.000000602,782
23	Boston	Massachusetts	&0000000000590763.000000590,763
24	Seattle	Washington	&0000000000582454.000000582,454
25	Washington	District of Columbia	&0000000000581530.000000581,530
26	Denver	Colorado	&0000000000566974.000000566,974
27	Louisville	Kentucky	&0000000000554496.000000554,496
28	Las Vegas	Nevada	&0000000000552539.000000552,539
29	Nashville	Tennessee	&0000000000552120.000000552,120
30	Oklahoma City	Oklahoma	&0000000000537734.000000537,734
31	Portland	Oregon	&0000000000537081.000000537,081
32	Tucson	Arizona	&0000000000518956.000000518,956
33	Albuquerque	New Mexico	&0000000000504949.000000504,949
34	Atlanta	Georgia	&0000000000486411.000000486,411
35	Long Beach	California	&0000000000472494.000000472,494
36	Fresno	California	&0000000000466714.000000466,714
37	Sacramento	California	&0000000000453781.000000453,781
38	Mesa	Arizona	&0000000000447541.000000447,541
39	Kansas City	Missouri	&0000000000447306.000000447,306
40	Cleveland	Ohio	&0000000000444323.000000444,323
41	Virginia Beach	Virginia	&0000000000435619.000000435,619
42	Omaha	Nebraska	&0000000000427872.000000427,872
43	Miami	Florida	&0000000000404048.000000404,048
44	Oakland	California	&0000000000397067.000000397,067
45	Tulsa	Oklahoma	&0000000000382872.000000382,872
46	Honolulu	Hawaii	&0000000000377357.000000377,357
47	Minneapolis	Minnesota	&0000000000372833.000000372,833
48	Colorado Springs	Colorado	&0000000000372437.000000372,437
49	Arlington	Texas	&0000000000367197.000000367,197
50	Wichita	Kansas	&0000000000357698.000000357,698
51	Raleigh	North Carolina	&0000000000356321.000000356,321
52	St. Louis	Missouri	&0000000000353837.000000353,837
53	Santa Ana	California	&0000000000340024.000000340,024
54	Anaheim	California	&0000000000334425.000000334,425
55	Tampa	Florida	&0000000000332888.000000332,888
56	Cincinnati	Ohio	&0000000000332252.000000332,252
57	Pittsburgh	Pennsylvania	&0000000000312819.000000312,819
58	Bakersfield	California	&0000000000308392.000000308,392
59	Aurora	Colorado	&0000000000303582.000000303,582
60	Toledo	Ohio	&0000000000298446.000000298,446
61	Riverside	California	&0000000000293761.000000293,761
62	Stockton	California	&0000000000290141.000000290,141
63	Corpus Christi	Texas	&0000000000285267.000000285,267
64	Newark	New Jersey	&0000000000281402.000000281,402
65	Anchorage	Alaska	&0000000000278700.000000278,700
66	Buffalo	New York	&0000000000276059.000000276,059
67	St. Paul	Minnesota	&0000000000273535.000000273,535
68	Lexington	Kentucky	&0000000000270789.000000270,789
69	Plano	Texas	&0000000000255009.000000255,009
70	Fort Wayne	Indiana	&0000000000248637.000000248,637
71	St. Petersburg	Florida	&0000000000248098.000000248,098
72	Glendale	Arizona	&0000000000246531.000000246,531
73	Jersey City	New Jersey	&0000000000241789.000000241,789
74	Lincoln	Nebraska	&0000000000241167.000000241,167
75	Henderson	Nevada	&0000000000240614.000000240,614
76	Chandler	Arizona	&0000000000240595.000000240,595
77	Norfolk	Virginia	&0000000000238832.000000238,832
78	Greensboro	North Carolina	&0000000000236865.000000236,865
79	Scottsdale	Arizona	&0000000000231127.000000231,127
80	Baton Rouge	Louisiana	&0000000000229553.000000229,553
81	Birmingham	Alabama	&0000000000229424.000000229,424
82	Madison	Wisconsin	&0000000000223389.000000223,389
83	New Orleans	Louisiana	&0000000000223388.000000223,388
84	Chesapeake	Virginia	&0000000000220560.000000220,560
85	Orlando	Florida	&0000000000220186.000000220,186
86	Garland	Texas	&0000000000217963.000000217,963
87	Hialeah	Florida	&0000000000217141.000000217,141
88	Laredo	Texas	&0000000000215484.000000215,484
89	Chula Vista	California	&0000000000212756.000000212,756
90	Lubbock	Texas	&0000000000212169.000000212,169
91	Reno	Nevada	&0000000000210255.000000210,255
92	Akron	Ohio	&0000000000209704.000000209,704
93	Durham	North Carolina	&0000000000209009.000000209,009
94	Rochester	New York	&0000000000208123.000000208,123
95	Modesto	California	&0000000000205721.000000205,721
96	Montgomery	Alabama	&0000000000201998.000000201,998
97	Fremont	California	&0000000000201691.000000201,691
98	Shreveport	Louisiana	&0000000000200199.000000200,199
99	Arlington	Virginia	&0000000000199776.000000199,776
100	Glendale	California	&0000000000199463.000000199,463

Source:
Wikipedia—List of United States Cities by Population

Terry Virgo has blogged about the recent Mark Driscoll visit. You really should go read the whole thing, but here is an excerpt:

Pettiness and small-mindedness don’t stand a chance when he cuts loose with his burning desire to see Christ glorified in our generation. His radical priorities and decision-making are deeply rooted in a passion to confront our contemporaries with gospel truth.

Being convinced of the authority of Scripture and the sovereignty of God, his driven urgency does not yield to a pragmatism that cuts corners. Big Biblical principles shape his thinking and his practice.

Few can be ahead of him in his radical application of modern means of communication. Literally millions of downloads of his preaching are being made all around the world and his commitment to multi-campus church speaks of a brilliant entrepreneurial style.

His humour, often expressed in hilarious one-liners, makes him so fascinating to listen to. One example: ‘A guy who won’t take responsibility is not really a man, he’s just a boy who shaves.’

Biting relevance also characterises him, whether he is challenging young people about moral purity or confronting a movement about its need to face the future not with nostalgia but with courage and decisiveness. He really gets under your skin! He could have simply given us a few good sermons, but he certainly didn’t settle for that!"

Read More . . .

Today I conclude my interview with Mark Driscoll. You can download the audio of the whole interview and watch the final segment below. The three previous segments can be viewed at the following pages:

• Video Interview - Mark Driscoll, Part 1 - Prophecy and Newfrontiers
  
  
• Video Interview - Mark Driscoll, Part 2 - A Prophecy for Newfrontiers and Worship
  
  
• Video Interview - Mark Driscoll, Part 3 - Impressions of the UK

During the course of this interview, Driscoll is very warm about Newfrontiers. If you are interested in finding out more about Newfrontiers, why not attend one of the Newfrontiers events in the USA, the UK, or other countries or visit the Newfrontiers website, or Terry Virgo's Blog.

Mark Driscoll also has a blog, hosted at The Resurgence, where you can find out more, as well as the Acts 29 Network and Mars Hill Church.

I continue my interview talking about Driscoll's impressions of the UK.

I continue my interview with Mark Driscoll by talking about his prophecy for Newfrontiers and his view of our worship.

I have not yet had a chance to finalize my notes from the Dwell Conference, so I thought I'd begin sharing the video content I have from my time in Brighton. Keep coming back for more interviews, and also for the notes still outstanding.

I begin my interview with Mark Driscoll by talking about his impressions of Newfrontiers and his view of prophecy.

UPDATE - At the moment, it seems the only way to download this message is to subscribe to the CCK podcast via iTunes. I hope this will be fixed soon.

Mark Driscoll returned to Brighton on Sunday evening and preached on Jeremiah 29 again.

As it was a young, mostly single congregation, he really went for it, especially strongly emphazising the material aimed at young men. If you know a single guy, dare him to download the sermon or listen to it online here:

This is the final set of notes I will post. But come back over the next week or two for a series of video interviews, and over this weekend for some notes from other talks Driscoll will be giving around London. As mp3s are posted, we will also be adding download links to the individual summary pages, but you can also check online or subscribe to the podcast.

The final main session of the Brighton Leaders' Conference was taken by Terry Virgo. More posts from this conference can be found on my TOAM08 label page. You can download the mp3 of Terry's talk or listen to it right here:


Terry began by thanking us for the great personal affection of which he was very aware yesterday. He then read almost the whole of this interesting chapter in Acts 8 on the character of Philip, the only named evangelist in the New Testament.

Both Stephen and Philip are introduced as men who are playing their part in a rapidly growing church. Terry described Stephen in his first talk on Tuesday. Today he completes this mini-series with a look at Philip.

There seems to be two halves to the description of Philip. In the first half he is in a domestic scene looking after the needs of widows. Foundations must be built into lives before they can have a public ministry.

This evangelist wasn't a loner with a ministry. He was known and loved in a local church. He wasn't isolated. He wasn't someone who just hadn't fit in so decides to leave the church to "go and do his evangelism thing." Rather notice what is said about him. He's selected by the church. He has a good reputation. When the church wants someone reliable, his name comes up. He was recognized for being “full of the Holy Spirit” when thousands were full of the Holy Spirit. He somehow stood out in that way, suggesting, incidentally, that there are degrees of being full of the Spirit. He was gifted, but he didn't push for his gift; he served, took his place so others could get on with their ministry. He didn't demand to be recognized. He was willing to take a lower profile, to put God first.

Later on, he goes and preaches. The Apostles come and he doesn't tell them to “get out of here,” he receives them. They came to bring the Spirit's fullness and to remove someone who was getting too much profile. In our family life, we should teach our kids to be team players. Don't insist on your own way. Don't just “let them do their own thing.” Prepare them for the kingdom. Ephesians 4 says that the gifts are given to equip the saints so that they may become mature. A mature man looks like Jesus — someone who knows he has come from God and is going to God, and yet he washes his disciples' feet!

Through love become one another’s slaves. Don't take the attitude, “I'm not appreciated here so I'll go somewhere else where I am appreciated.” Be a team player. His household was good. His daughters later are described as having prophesied regularly. [Incidentally, as a side note apart from what Terry actually said, it struck me once again as I was listening that there is no record of these daughter's prophecies being viewed as Scripture, and they are not recorded in the Bible. It still surprises me that some people persist in seeing all prophecy as equivalent to Scripture.]

Back to Terry. These daughters were not rebellious, but full of the Spirit. They were respected. They had been taught to listen to him. Must have been good relationships and an honoring of women. Philip had an exemplary home. It's such a joy to have children of whom you can be proud.

Suddenly things change. Stephen is martyred. Philip moves into his second half. God in his sovereignty scatters the believers that the world may hear the gospel. Philip is alive to the opportunity. He knows God's will. He follows the prompting of the Spirit. He is gospel intoxicated, not waiting for an official strategy. He goes with what God is doing. He is willing to move. He shares and takes every opportunity to speak. Philip heralded the good news. He preached Christ. What Christ did he preach? Not just enough to make vague statements. What kind of Christ should we present?

A Jesus rooted in Old Testament revelation.
The eunuch was reading Isaiah 53, which was, of course, something of a gift. Tim Keller says people are reacting to abstract theologizing that's not rooted in the truth. We need to be assured of the message we have. This passage is classic and about the atonement. We must focus there, we must preach the cross. Don't abandon that as our central theme. The cross didn't need much description in those days, everyone knew what it was like. These days we need to explain it. We must break through that film that comes on people. We should publicly placard Christ crucified. God's fury against sin was dealt with. We must feel it strongly. Let the cross captivate our hearts.

A Jesus with the good news of the kingdom of God. Philip was speaking of a phenomenal event. Jesus is the Messiah, the one God sent. He is raised and seated on high ruling and reigning. They glory in the resurrection. They proclaim that the tomb was empty. It's not just a case of a man whose teachings were so great that "the dream lives on." His death may have looked as if he were a fraud, as if it's the end, without the resurrection. But he’s not only alive, he's reigning. He is the Son of God with power.

A Jesus who had not lost his power to heal.
Philip is preaching and we see amazing things happen. The crowds heard it and saw it. These two men are provocations that our hearers also see the mighty implications of this Jesus being alive, being raised from the dead. Terry encouraged us to get behind Lex Loizides and the Front Edge program. Jesus is alive. Terry realized recently that he'd never taught on healing all these years. He was challenged to proclaim this and teach about this biblical Jesus. Speak about the Bible Jesus. Faith arises, hearts are stirred. “He preached Christ, not healings and miracles” say some commentaries. But it's amazing at the end, so they were baptized. But then the text doesn't mention baptism. He must have mentioned baptism then, just didn't record that he said that. So he proclaimed the sort of Christ who can heal the sick and oppressed of the devil. He presented him as he was in the Bible. People got healed because he told people what Jesus was like and what he did. He didn't present substitutionary atonement alone, but spoke of other things that Jesus did. In Galatians it is Jesus who supplies the Spirit to them and performs miracles among them. In the gospels he is either healing, coming from a healing, or about to do one. He is performing healings all the time. To preach Christ without even mentioning it is to preach an incomplete Christ. Jesus is still the same, yesterday and today and forever. Often uncomfortable with the teaching of those who go for healing. Well then it's time for US to preach it like it is and go for it!

A Jesus who expected a whole hearted response.
He baptized them. For joy he sells everything to get the pearl. We need to be absolutely besotted with Christ and the kingdom. It is vital.

A Jesus who could bring joy to the city.
Mark talked about the cities yesterday. Church planting is not just going up the road to the next town. We need to go for it. God wants our tragic cities with their multiple problems. The gospel must break out in our cities. Righteousness, peace, and joy in the Spirit.

A Jesus with the nations in mind.
The nations come to our cities. We must be on our toes. God wants to go to the ends of the earth.

When I write these notes, I do sometimes slip in things that strike me, so please understand they are never meant to be accurate transcripts. One thing strikes me about this passage, which Terry didn't have to say, speaking as he was to a room full of charismatics — healings and miracles are not enough. Baptisms and repentance are not enough. It is so striking that none of those things particularly impressed the magician, Simon. It is surely one of the most obvious demonstrations that the receiving of the Spirit is not meant to be a private intimate secret affair that even the recipient might not realize it has happened. No, the man who had seen all those miracles was only impressed when the Apostles came, laid hands on people, and they received the Spirit. We are not told here exactly what happened. But it was enough to make this man offer money that he could also impart the Spirit. If it had been us, many of us would instead have offered money to be able to heal people! Whatever your theology of the Spirit is, make sure you have room for a dramatic encounter that somehow is so visible and impressive in its results that it is more dramatic even than healings. We have to expect an anointing of the Spirit that is tangible and vivid and has dynamic results.

Back to Terry. We also see here the need to be like Philip, who was eager to bring in someone from outside. We need to be those who ask for people to come from the outside, to ask for help. We need people who are like Stephen and Philip, who can say with humility, “It's not mine, it doesn't belong to me. It's God's ministry.”

Philip is whisked off from the multitude to one guy. He has a passion for the crowd, but also for the individual. He is not caught up in the moment of high profile.

Terry then spoke of how some leaders get as far as they can go in their gift and they have to make room for someone else to take over and take the lead. That takes a humble heart. It's not failure. You can be fulfilled by doing this. Make room. I want you to move in and take over! That's a difficult thing for a pastor to say. We need to hear stories that people in the churches have stepped down. It takes a lot of grace to do that. Wives can be jealous for their husbands. Be flexible, be humble. Stephen lost his life, Philip laid down his life so others could play their role.

What comes first is the kingdom. It's about being besotted with Jesus. Having a passion for him. Let's talk about the WHOLE Jesus, the Bible Jesus. The one who began to work, and is still working today. It will be hard, it will be tough. But let's go for it! As we have as our motto on all of our literature at Jubilee Church, “It's all about Jesus.”

This morning I attended the last session of the Leaders’ training track, Prophetic Encounter, led by Sam Poe and Phil Wilthew. Today’s session looked at “Pastors and Prophets Together Building the Church.” I also was able to get to the two previous sessions, which I summarized at these pages:

• Apostles and Prophets Together on a Mission
  
  
• Prophets and Prophets Together Giving a Fuller Picture

Sam serves on John Lanferman’s apostolic team in the USA. He and his wife, Marlene, have travelled widely, serving churches in the USA and other nations. In recent years they have been particularly involved in working together with churches in Russia and the Ukraine. Sam and Marlene are presently based in Tacoma, Washington, where they are part of a new church. Sam is also serving other churches related to Newfrontiers in that region.

Phil is married to Carole, has two children, and is an elder in City Church, Newcastle, UK. He serves churches prophetically, particularly in the north of the UK, and has a passion to develop prophetic teams.

More posts from this conference can be found on my TOAM08 label page. You can download the mp3s of this week's talks by subscribing to the new Newfrontiers podcast, which will be an easy way for you to get access to the mp3s for free.

A prophet working in isolation can cause mayhem! But working with the local pastor produces both security and expansion in the people for whom he has responsibility.

Sam Poe began by turning to 1 Thessalonians 5. “Test everything. Hold on to the good, avoid every kind of evil."

The focal point of prophetic ministry should be the local church. The application and expression of that ministry is in building up the church. What Paul says in 1 Thessalonians 5 will require not just the prophets, but those in authority—teachers and pastors working together to ensure that prophecy is tested, weighed, and applied.

Prophecy can bring encouragement, direction, and prediction of the future, as well as warnings and correction. Mandates of this text are about prophecy.

SOME IMPERATIVES IN THIS PASSAGE

Don't quench the fire by disdaining or despising prophecy.
Because of the excesses, errors, and eccentricities, we can reject it because of this. Root the pictures in sound theology. We need elders who will pastor as leaders the prophetic. The central purpose of prophecy is to build up. They also have a foundational effort. Encouragement or exhortation—it’s about helping someone reach for a positive future. Don't ever use prophecy to try to get somebody to do something you want them to do. Life is full of trouble; prophecy brings comfort, which is more of a prod to get you going forward and to strengthen you in the battle.

TEST them all.
All prophecy needs to be tested. Not to judge with a scowl on the face. The word in Greek is to examine something and evaluate it with the attitude or expectation of approving it, i.e. our attitude should not be cynical.

Maintain what is good — hold on to it.
This is good and we want to take it on board and take some steps. Otherwise it could be frustrating. Apostolic ministry and pastoral ministry are critical. Fan the flames.

Abstain from whatever is evil.
Sometimes something comes in the name of prophecy that’s not helpful. Sometimes there is no real weight in the prophecy.

HOW TO RECEIVE PROPHETS INTO THE LOCAL CHURCH

If you don't have a well-established mature prophet in the life of the church, sometimes you may need to receive one of them. Ephesians 4:11 type prophets can help us lay firm foundations in the church. It's the same foundation that they lay.

As the question, "Are they accountable to a local church and its leadership?" Don't invite them if they aren't! Every leader and ministry must be rooted into the life of a local church. Some are very trans-local and mobile, but where is home? Where do they come back to? Are they related to and working in a team with an apostolic ministry? They are meant to be working together. Find each other and be related to each other.

It's important that the congregation has a clear biblical understanding of the place and value of prophetic ministry in the local church.

Phil Wilthew then added to this. Pastors and prophets are very different people. Pastors and prophets have the same job description –—i.e. to reveal Jesus. There are five ways this can work well.

Recognize differences.
God designed us to be different and complementary. Don't be too quick to compartmentalize. We are a blend of gifts. Gifts are colors and shades, but not boxes. Pastors tend to be warm, loving, create unity, security, strength, consolidate, provide strong foundations, are measured and well rounded, not given to extremes, cautious of change, patient, good for the long haul with no short sharp fixes. They are amazing gifts to the church. Prophets are the perfect foil for all those characteristics, — they are direct, love change, can get frustrated with the status quo, look at what’s ahead, find it hard to live in the hear and now as they are looking ahead, don't like maintaining and consolidating; they are impulsive, defensive, attacking, not measured, and dislike caution. Again an amazing gift to the church. There is a great potential for synergy, and also for challenge between them. Self-awareness is a great gift.

Practice love.
It's simple, but worth saying again. Neither circumcision or uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. If you don't have love, you are a painful cymbal. It's not emotional, it's something we do. Chemistry is important, but express faith and practice love. Don't be right all the time.

Love enables honest communication.
Love enables you to talk honestly with each other. But can rebuke, spell out what’s what. Too many people have high honesty, but shallow relationships. Paul opposed Peter face-to-face. Don't send an e-mail! Look in the whites of their eyes and realize I “need to talk to you honestly.” Gather pastors with prophetically gifted guys in the church into groups, teams. In times of frustration, don't be impulsive in your communication. Utilize communication, especially with prophetic people who have gone silent and found a cave to hide in!

Develop proper teams.
The first is a mixed-gift team. Be with guys who are not like you. Cover weaknesses. Also need same-gift teams, too. So we need to mix it up and have different combinations.

Play to your strengths.
We need to look to change the areas where we are lacking. But, we will be most effective by getting better at what we are already good at. Get better at your gift.

Give good feedback to good prophetic people in your church. The worst thing for most prophetic people is silence. Do it in the meeting. “I just want to say thank you so much to the prophetic people who shared this morning. I was particularly blessed by this ...” Also, provide personal feedback, e.g. “Thank you so much for sharing. Next time something that might really help you would be if you would talk slower and more clearly.”

Don't always translate frustration as rebellion, or that they are out of kilter. It's their job to plow things up. He hears God and mercilessly questions everything. A prophet is therefore seen as a threat and wants movement now. He is not a troubler. Ask prophetic folk what they are hearing. Work on the character of prophetic people in your church. Character training is of highest value. Rigorously challenge prophetic people on their time with God. Understand that accuracy is learned and developed over time. Need very positive encouragement and help.

It's very hard to describe in a blog post the combination of a raucous celebration, a fervent prayer meeting, a missions update, and a special offering evening that was the final night of our Leaders Conference. We collected over £1.1 million.

Rather than trying to capture the whole evening I thought I'd speak about just one of the many things that happened. We were told about just some of the European cities where we have brand new church plants that are currently under way or about to start. Then a mighty burst of prayer went up that these would be firmly and quickly established.

If you already live in one of these cities or could move to one of them and want to consider getting involved, please follow the links below. If there is no link yet, please send me an e-mail at adrian.warnock@gmail.com and I will forward your mail to the right place. If one of these centers that does not currently have a website eventually gets one, please do let me know. At the end of the list you should see a video introducing the Amsterdam plant.

Amsterdam — See Information Day, Facebook, and Sean Green's Blog
Dublin — See also Facebook
Paris — See George and Gill Tee's blog, "Tee Time in Paris"
Porto
Valencia
St Petersberg

The audio of this message can be downloaded, or you can listen to it right here:

More posts from this conference can be found on my TOAM08 label page. You can also download the mp3s of this week's talks by subscribing to the new Newfrontiers podcast, which will be an easy way for you to get access to the mp3s for free.

Mark Driscoll began by thanking us again for having him, thanking us for the trust placed in him as someone we didn't know, but who had a reputation for being proactive, for the reception and the new friendships, and specifically once again for Terry Virgo and Tope Koleoso, and for what he has learned.

Having been gracious, he then said, “And now I will hurt you . . .” with a twinkle in his eye. He says that he wants us to go beyond our goal of 1,000 churches and grow more quickly.

Our movement leader is Jesus. He interjected about his view of the apostolic. He briefly stated that he did believe in “capital A” Apostles whose job it was to write the New Testament. He also believes in “small a” apostles whose job it is to lead movements and church planting drives. And he believes in them for today. He also believes that Terry Virgo has such a gift and is therefore a modern-day apostle. Pointing at the crowd, he said, “This is good evidence” — meaning the movement of 600 plus churches represented in this room. Feel free to read one of my previous posts about modern day apostles if this all seems a bit strange to you.

Mark explained that the church exists because of Jesus' desire to reach the ends of the earth. Paul was a leader under Jesus in this movement of Christ, and was responsible for the drive to the Gentiles. Paul completely ignored the rural areas and focused entirely on the cities. Mark strongly urged those of us in Newfrontiers to hear this if we want to grow faster.

If you plant a church in a rural area you will never reach the city. If you plant a church in the city you will also reach the rural areas. Everything hinges on the well-being of the cities. Cities are strategically important for two reasons. First, there are more people there, and second, culture emanates/flows from the city. City is upstream, and suburban and rural areas are downstream. The river flows one way. Culture does not come from the rural areas into the city. The only way to change culture is to transform the city.

Both Christian and non-Christian movements have always emanated from cities. It's not the number of people, it's the type of people. But today most cities are non-Christian and the rural areas are more Christian. So Christians become frustrated with the culture — films, music, books, art, etc. The only way to affect that is to be in the city. The key to actual change is to get upstream. We need to lead politicians, artists, musicians, etc. to Jesus. It's not about getting a lot of people to make a difference. The degree of influence is not about the number of people, but their place upstream.

Christianity starts as an urban church planting movement. He described how he would go into a city and plant a church that could reproduce and plant out into the rural areas. Mark told us to pool our best leaders and resources into the key areas. Chief on that list is London. The world passes through London. Cities like Cape Town and Sydney and other such cities also need strong churches which will reproduce and plant more churches.

Early Christianity was a city-based movement. By 300 A.D. half of the cities of the empire were Christian while 90 per cent were still pagan. Pagan probably comes from a word which meant someone living on a farm. Urban church planting in strategic areas can become a center for a movement of its own. Multiple churches, multiple networks, multiple styles, but one mission—to obey the Great Commission.

Puritans were a movement. They were also very young—teens and 20's. Methodism, the charismatic renewal—bigger than one denomination or network or one man. Young people tend to be at the center, at least early-on. By bringing in the students suggests that God was telling Terry, “I am planning more renewal.”

Spurgeon, Moody, Billy Graham, and others were all very young when called to ministry. What young people lack in wisdom they make up in zeal. If the older ones can make the transition from player to coach, they will do well.

Anglicanism isn't having mass conversions right now because they are too busy fighting over who you can have sex with.

With a renewal movement going on, new churches are planted. New ways of doing things, new music, new styles, new ways of reaching out. Church planting requires new wineskins. The goal is not to plant churches, but to have converts such that it becomes necessary to plant churches.

Most movements are unaware of the scale of their influence.

Out of the movement comes supporting organizations—new songs, new books to write, etc.

Most movements come into being because of the coming of new technology. The Reformation was only possible because of the printing press. Evangelists like Billy Graham were only able to do what they did because of the newly invented amplified speaker systems, etc. The Internet is now spawning a new movement in form. We can preach the gospel to the nations with a click of a button.

Mark wants Newfrontiers to still exist when we are all dead, and to still be loving Jesus and planting churches.

Movements start as a simple organization that sees a need and a few friends club together. They come together to meet that need. God raises up a leader who the people recognize as the visible face, the one who God has called to lead them. The organization then grows and becomes a movement. Big interest is generated. More people come. The crowds grow. There is passion, purpose, mission, expansion. It can be fast and furious. Mistakes are made. Theology needs to be clarified. It can be a messy time, some people don't fit.

During the time of growth there is pressure to become an institution. There no longer is courage, but rather a fear of failure. Founders and friends occupy all the positions of leadership. Those who have been there a long time have all the senior roles, and there is no room for the young. As soon as that happens the young guys leave to start another movement. The young guys of the past are in danger of becoming the old guys that they never used to like in the first place.

The question for every movement is — Will every seat always be filled by the founders and friends? Only this will stop it becoming an institution. Institutions guard previous change, they don't pioneer new change. They stop listening to anyone outside of the network they're in. They only read books by, sing songs by, listen to teaching by people from inside their movement. A movement needs humility and discernment to listen to people from outside the movement.

Driscoll was shocked to be here. He sees how willing Newfrontiers is to bring in people from outside of Newfrontiers, bringing a gift to us. You receive it and consider it. That is one of the key ways a movement can avoid becoming an institution.

Once you have an institution, the next step is to become a museum. The remnant that is left behind exists solely to tell the story. In one generation a movement can transition to being an institution and then a museum.

Mark then outlined seven ways a movement can get off-track. He acknowledged that most of this was taken from Larry Osbourne.

Doctrinally
An example of this is Vineyard. It started well, but then drifted and compromised on ecclesiology, introduced women elders, etc. and became too loose. A movement can also become too tight. A healthy movement does not debate doctrines such as the atonement, the Bible, heaven, hell, etc., but should be free to discuss secondary issues. The key is to define what you need agreement on in order to be in the movement and what you can safely differ on.

Relationships
Mark has some concern for us here. People can love their circles of friendship so much that they are unwilling to break up their circles of leadership to make more room. It's like Peter saying, “Let's build tents.” Mission can become their friendship and not the Great Commission. It's not that you shouldn't have friends. But you tend to gravitate towards your friends. This affinity and love can exclude those who are new. This can be especially true in working teams. It might suddenly be time to break up a team for the mission. Again, Mark expressed a bit of concern for us over this.

There is a bit of relational resistance, and we should really be planting at least 70-100 churches a year from a base of 200 churches like Newfrontiers has in the UK. (Ed. There are another 400 or so worldwide.)

Organizationally
This is another concern Mark has for Newfrontiers. Everything is done initially through relationships and verbally. As time goes on, things must be written down, articulated, and defined. They move from the spoken to the written. If you are unwilling to make those adjustments you can become an institution. If the reason you don't want policies, etc. is that you don't want to become an institution, what you will become is a very poorly organized institution.

Organizational Pride
Some movements will not sing songs unless they have been written by them; they won't read books that have not been written by them; nor will they listen to those from outside. Mark stated that he has no concern whatsoever about Newfrontiers on this front. There are times that every movement outgrows the counsel of their leadership and need wisdom from outside. He commends Newfrontiers for being so open to outsiders teaching them.

Chasing Potential Rather Than Calling
Movements can chase too many things at once. For example, Vineyard started as a church-planting movement and then became a renewal movement. They were involved in so many other groups that they didn't really plant churches any more. Focus on the primary calling of the movement. Mark said that so far he hears that our primary goal is church planting, but 10 to12 churches a year is too few for a movement our size if we are truly pursuing this with all of our heart. He wondered what other things we were pursuing that were diverting our energies.

Movements Stagnate Because of Lack of Publishing
There is a need to do much, much more publishing. What is your doctrine of the Holy Spirit? What is your doctrine of church planting? What is your ecclesiology? Some of these things still need to be cleaned up. Actually he feels Newfrontiers is doing better than Acts 29 on some of these points. Websites, blogging, vodcasting, etc. More statements to safeguard the movement.

Mark warned us that the next point would be his most painful point, and he wasn't wrong. By the time he had finished with us, I don't think there was a dry eye in the hall.

Movements Get Off-Course Because They Fail to Simultaneously Honor the Founder and the Future
Some movements so honor the founder that they shipwreck the future. Some so honor the future that they shipwreck their founder. This is the defining issue for our movement. It will determine whether our movement a one-generation movement or many. At this moment do you believe that as a movement you would tend to honor your future or your founder? Which way do you feel Newfrontiers is heading?

For the first time in the history of a Newfrontiers conference, Mark proposed a vote. We don't vote, but went along with it just this once. Of those who were bold enough to raise a hand, 80 percent said that they felt our tendency as a movement would be towards honoring our founding leader rather than running after the future.

Driscoll agreed with those who responded that we tend to honor our founder, and we should do so! We love Terry Virgo and we should honor him. Mark said that he was only just getting to know Terry, but that he also loves him. He is a great man. He truly loves Jesus, the Scriptures, his family,and Newfrontiers. And we love him. The question is, How can we best honor him? We can do that by making sure that Newfrontiers remains a movement with a future and builds on Terry's life work.

Mark then explained that he felt that God had given him a prophetic word for us as a movement, and for Terry in particular. This was remarkable in a way because he had said repeatedly during the week that this was an area in which he was learning from us. In his own church he had said that although he believes in gifts, they don't use them. For someone who said he had no real models of gifts, he was about to share one that packed a heavy punch.

Looking down at Terry, who was sitting on the front row watching, he said that God had said that Newfrontiers is like a daughter to you, Terry. You have birthed it, held it, guarded it, cared for it, tended to it, prayed for it, loved it. You have been an amazing father to them.

He felt God said that, while not in the immediate future, there will come a day when you will need to walk her down the aisle and marry her to a great man so she will have children.

Driscoll urged us to pray for Terry as he is to make that transition at some point in the future. God will tell him. Be ready for it when it comes. Regularly pray for him. He asked us to commit to pray daily about this point. He said we should ask that Terry would have absolute certainty when it is time to walk it down the aisle, certainty about which man or men he should entrust her to. He looked at the crowd and declared, "You think of it a lot, but speak of it very little, because you love Terry. And you don't want to dishonor him."

Driscoll also warned us that we must not swing towards being all about the future. But it is the epicenter of whether we will continue to be healthy or begin to die. Pray for Terry Virgo. Pray for him every day that God will reveal to him when and how and who so that this will remain a movement. London is full of museums. We don't need another one. We don't need some of you to be just telling the stories in thirty years' time. We want the praises of Jesus to still be sung.

Rick Warren once spoke on movements. He said there are six phases of renewal:

It begins and ends with personal renewal.
You keep meeting with Jesus. He is alive! Be filled with the Spirit, meeting him in the Scriptures, be overwhelmed with the grace of God. Be scandalized with the gospel. Personal renewal, enthusiasm, joy.

Next there is relational renewal
Love of God in your heart is shared. Concern for the well-being of others. Captures something of your heart. Improves marriages, children. Circle of influence. Life of Jesus by the Spirit flowing through you to extend the grace of God to others. People show up early and stay late, and they are talking. They love to sing together because they are a people. This is what happens in Newfrontiers. Personal, which leads to relational, and shows up when we sing. Again Driscoll spoke of being impressed by our worship.

Missional renewal is the next phase
As we are connected to Jesus and love one another, our heart expands. We want new churches to get planted right now. We are people of God. The Word of God and the Spirit of God sustains us and we have to get that out.

Leads to cultural renewal
Be passionate about living as a city within the city. Cultural change in our churches will then spill out to the community. Infiltrates the culture of the cities. Culture here in Newfrontiers, according to Mark, is beautiful, but it needs to multiply.

Structural renewal then needed
The way we do things is going to need to change. More systems, more policies. 70-100 plants a year at least. The measure of life in this room should squeeze out many more than ten children a year!

Institutional renewal is the ultimate goal
Changing Christian organizations that are dead. Do not give up on churches, networks, museums, colleges, even Anglicanism. We could be a source of renewal. Pour life into a dead seminary, a dead church, etc. How refreshing it is to be around renewed people! This could be a gift to the whole body of Christ. In joy, giving them hope that change is possible. He said that for the entire time he has been with us, he has been happy, which is very unusual for him. He feels his spirit has been renewed through being here. We should pray for the dead and dying places where the light of the gospel is dimming or has been snuffed out altogether. Bring hope where there is hopelessness. In Acts 29, their church planters are from many different movements and denominations. It begins with Jesus and ends with everything. Young men, you need to step up. If he asks, Who are the young leaders here? don't point to men years older than Driscoll.

One prayer is for a bunch of 20 year old guys with hope who will plant churches and preach the gospel with hope. Be looking at all times for men in their 20's. They will be arrogant, foolish, impetuous, critical, disorganized, and they will be perfect for the task God has for them!

At the end of this talk, we did something that in my memory we have never done in the 30 years I have been attending Newfrontiers conferences — we all stood as one man in a standing ovation to this fatherly yet direct, loving yet firm, respectful yet critical, emotive yet rational, talk.

Terry Virgo then stood at the microphone and said that there have been times in our movement that were historic moments. He spoke about the way Kreingsak changed us in the past, and when Simon Petit spoke on the poor that also changed us. He said that he knew God told him to invite Mark Driscoll, but that when he did, he had no idea he would feel “taken apart” by him.

Terry then closed with a simple prayer in which he thanked God for his care for us as a movement. He also thanked God for Mark Driscoll, who he called one of God's most remarkable servants. He thanked God for the high privilege of having Mark Driscoll on this platform, and spoke of how we really are a FAMILY on a journey, with a God who is continualy expressing his love for us.

The speaker for the first main session today was P-J Smyth. P-J leads Godfirst Church and one of the Newfrontiers apostolic teams working in southern Africa, involved with planting and strengthening local churches. P-J, Ashleigh, and their three sons live in Johannesburg, South Africa.

More posts from this conference can be found on my TOAM08 label page. You can download the mp3 of P-J's talk or listen to it right here:


Those in distress, debt, and discontent, became the army of God. We need to manage a growing army that works. There are multiple enemies. When planting a church, it can feel like the people that gather are a motley crew. But God is in the business of producing change. It can be a cave-like start. It's not about being irresponsible and reckless. The cave is a season that becomes a great army. Don't panic if that is how it feels.

The Conscience of the Army (1 Chronicles 11:1-3)

Three things joined this group of people to David. What enabled them with a clear conscience to say “I am with you”?

1. You are our own flesh and blood, i.e. we like being around you.
   
   
2. We see the anointing/fruit i.e. we see what God has been doing.
   
   
3. Because God said.

They didn't follow because the leader was the closest geographically, or because you were named the successor.

Jesus would ask questions — Who do you think I am? Effectively, Where are you at with this? Do you love me?

Philemon 8. Paul said he could not compel. He uses the phrase “clear conscience” many times. “We commend ourselves to every man's conscience” (2 Corinthians 4:2). “What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience” (2 Corinthians 5:11). He did not inflict and was not overbearing.

David was willing to tell Saul that he had a track record — a bear came, a lion came; Goliath is no different. Sometimes it's not wrong to tell people about things that have happened before in order to help win them over.

Paul strongly urged Apollos, but he was quite unwilling. Paul then backs off, but trusts that Apollos will go at some point. Paul trusts the sovereignty of God (1 Corinthians 16:12). Paul will have nothing to do with violating another's conscience.

• Be convinced.
  
  
• Give compelling theological reasons.
  
  
• Give compelling pastoral, prophetic, or situational reasons.
  
  
• Acknowledge and thoroughly address concerns and difficulties.
  
  
• Reassure that you are continuously looking to God for confirmation; moving forward, but not burning bridges too soon.
  
  
• Have a culture of robust discussion and debate.
  
  
• Patiently help people to get their own “faith.”
  
  
• Keep “my way or the highway” for last resort. Persuade, don't bulldoze.

David was not a softy. It wasn't a democracy. Don't violate consciences, educate them.

1 Chronicles 12:16-18. David is very clear and direct. Basically, if you are against me, God will get you! But it was the Spirit who joined them to him.

If you get a new leader, allow him to get a year or two behind him. Look for a sense of relationship to grow, for you to see the anointing, so you will hear God. But if you feel after that time it just isn't working, you may have to readjust where you're at.

1 Timothy 1:18 tells us that if we reject the clean conscience, then there is a danger that we will end in a shipwreck.

Devotion of the army (1 Chronicles 11:16). Brought water back, but wouldn't drink it. Followers can express radical devotion, not just to the mission, but to the person. But the leader shouldn't just glug it down! Thanks mate, give me more! No! If people devote themselves to the leader, then the leader should send that back to God.

P-J shared two sets of statements taken from the Scriptures — one that he uses when he is doing the leading and one when he is doing the following. Sadly I was too tired to type fast enough to capture this list in its entirety. If you did a better job than me, please do send it to me and I will complete it here.

The Leadership Set of Scriptures

• I am not doing this for gain (2 Corinthians 2:17, 1 Timothy 3:8, 1 Timothy 6:5, Titus 1:7 ).
  
  
• I am free from the love of money, content, trusting God (Hebrews 11:5-6).
  
  
• I am above reproach, and at pains to do what is right in the eyes of God and man. (1 Timothy 3:2, 2 Corinthians 8:21)
  
  
• My followers owe me nothing—I will gladly spend myself for them. (2 Corinthians 12:4)
  
  
• I consider devotion to me as if to God ... I will pour it out to the Lord (1 Chronicles 11:18)

The Followers Set of Scriptures

• My leaders are worthy of double honor (1 Timothy 5:17).
  
  
• My aim is to make their lives a joy (Hebrews 13:17).
  
  
• I can be attentive to their needs and quick to try to help, alert to give them support and encouragement (1 Chronicles 11:18).

In David's team there were the 30, the 3, and some who were honored, but some who didn't quite fit. In fact, someone who wasn't in the 3 became their commander. Structure and clarity is important, but sometimes you have to break the mould a bit. We need to be secure in God and have slightly blurred lines. Don't try and fit God's structure into a neat human "organogram." We can sometimes fit things into such a thing, and it's good to do so.

Structure of the Army

• Some order and clarity is good.
  
• Don't force it into an organogram.
  
• Allow gifting of God to trump structure.

Friendship gets us to the table—it's a round table, but gifting determines who gets the loudest voice. Ordered, but organic.

The Leader of the Army

Lead Inclusive
1 Chronicles 11:4. “You will not get in.” But the next word says, “nevertheless.” David said “whoever leads will become commander in chief." Perhaps David was about to lead the charge and remembered Saul letting him go for the wrong reasons, and so said “Who’s up for it?”

Don't give everybody a go! Provide an atmosphere and an opportunity, but don't over-promote people. Give room, but followers need to fill that room. Leaders are looking for followers who will become leaders.

Lead Strong
Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

Leaders' Three Levels

• Guard what has been entrusted. Know what you are protecting. The trust, the people, the ground we have taken, the doctrine, myself, my integrity, my flock. Not going to throw away my wicket!
  
  
• Steady advance—it's not sexy, but it's important.
  
  
• Breaking new ground. Spot the opportunities. Cricketers have to decide: Will I let it go by, block it, or give it a whack? Seize the moments of advance. It's not teamsmanship; it's not managership; it's not administership. It's LEADERSHIP. Spot the soft spot of the enemy. When David sees Goliath he doesn't see the amor, he thinks, “What a big forehead you have!” Don't take "no" for an answer. Don't back off. I am up for this. We need an army of men who don't know what can't be done.

General Montgomery, on taking over the struggling 8th Army in 1942, said:

"I believe that one of the first duties of a commander is to create what I call ‘atmosphere’, and in that atmosphere his staff and troops will live and work and fight. I do not like the general atmosphere I find here. It is an atmosphere of doubt, of looking back to select the next place which to withdraw to, of loss of confidence in our ability to defeat Rommel, of desperate defence measures in preparing positions in Cairo and the Delta. All that must cease. Let us have a new atmosphere. The defence of Egypt lies here at Alamein. Here we stand and fight; there will be no further withdrawal. I have ordered that all plans and instructions dealing with further withdrawal are to be burnt, and at once. We will stand and fight here. If we can’t stay here alive, then let us stay here dead ... Our mandate from the Prime Minister is to destroy the Axis forces in North Africa; I have seen it, written on half a sheet of notepaper. And it will be done. If anyone here thinks it can’t be done, let him go once; I don’t want any doubters in this party. It can be done, and it will be done: beyond any possibility of doubt."

Emu and kangaroo are both physiologically incapable of going backwards. It's not like the army of God to go backwards.

This morning I attended the second session of the training track, Prophetic Encounter. This session was entitled “Prophets and Prophets Together Giving a Fuller Picture.” The New Testament refers to prophetic bands. Prophets working together often results in releasing the prophetic gift in greater measure, to the enhancement and greater health of the local church. The session was led by Keith Hazell, a visiting speaker from outside Newfrontiers.

Keith and his wife, Nova, live in Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada, and are based in Mosaic Church. Keith has been in the prophetic ministry for more than forty years and ministers extensively at home and abroad. He has a growing relationship with Newfrontiers churches, and has served some in East Anglia for more than twenty years. He and his wife are British-born and have strong roots in eastern England. They are blessed to serve in the body of Christ, along with their family, teaching and demonstrating the prophetic ministry.

More posts from this conference can be found on my TOAM08 label page. You can download the mp3s of this week's talks by subscribing to the new Newfrontiers podcast, which will be an easy way for you to get access to the mp3s for free

In the book of Acts, prophets do work in teams. Some people think prophets are all about tearing down. But the building-up bit is important. Prophets work as part of the leadership of a church, with different gifts.

Acts 13:1-3
“Now there were in the church at Antioch prophets and teachers . . .”

Prophets need to be comfortable with others; they are not individual players. We see them being sent in teams. They are under authority. Judas and Silas were sent together as a team and said much to encourage the Church.

1 Corinthians 14:29
Two or three should speak and others weigh carefully. It is a team package. Get confirmation from one another when a team is involved. Learn to hear the voice of God with other people.

Prophets Working Together in Unity
Whenever prophets are mentioned in the book of Acts, they are always mentioned in the context of the Church. There are no "Lone Rangers" in Acts. Identify who are prophets and who are not, and then use them to build the Church. God appoints them, the church recognizes them. As Ephesians 4 says, "God gives the Church prophets." The place for building the body is in the Church.

The Purpose of Prophets Working Together
This is good for their humility. Prophets should not think more of themselves than they ought. Like obscurity, hide as much as you can. When they work together they build. Prophecy is not just about blessing people as individuals.

Protection for the Church
One man prophetic ministry can be very dangerous for a church. One prophet doesn't see everything there is to see.

Prophets Train Others
Prophets need to reproduce other prophets—train people, help to stretch their horizons.

There is Power in Working Together
It is like an exponential increase of anointing. In 1 Samuel 10:5-6, Saul is told by Samuel that he will see a "procession of prophets coming down from the high place ... and they will be prophesying." As a result of him being near that group, the Spirit came on him. Iron sharpens iron. Get near people who are prophets and you may “catch” something, almost as if it's contagious.

Problems Do Arise Sometimes When Working Together
We all have human frailties that can interfere with our ability to work together. We can feel jealous sometimes. Some prophetic people take pride in being weird and eccentric. In a team that can get ironed out. Some become insecure and depressed. Apostolic covering brings security. It makes all the difference. Accountability is crucial for prophets.

Promises Are Given by God
Ecclesiastes 4:9 — “Two are better than one ...” Because we only know in part and prophesy in part, you get a bigger picture.

Deuteronomy 32:30 — "How can one man chase a thousand, or two put ten thousand to flight?" Two people can put 10,000 to flight, but one only 1,000.

Julian Adams then added some additional thoughts. Prophets are intercessors. There is something about connecting to the heart of God and his affection, being carried into the heart of God together. Developing a sensitivity to the emotions of God for the people you are about to prophesy over. Get God's heart. Pray together as prophetic people.

We are in Christ so there will never be a closed heaven. When Jesus was baptized heaven was opened, and now he has risen to heaven.

Prophets can also come together for the sake of evangelism. Start with an encouraging word. Encouragement is the simplest form of prophecy. When unbelievers come in, they should say God is in this place. The worship team and prophecy can go together also. Stop, pause, and meditate.

I was getting tired last night, so I devoted more of my attention to being personally impacted by this message and less to typing. Thus, these notes will probably be shorter than some of the other sessions, which is probably just as well!

Last night's main session was taken by David Devenish. Dave is based in Woodside Church, Bedford, UK. He is working with many churches in Russia and the Ukraine, and preparing churches and individuals for world mission. He has written the books, Setting People Free, Demolishing Strongholds, and What on Earth is the Church For? He has also developed various training courses. He is married to Scilla and they have four grown-up children.

More posts from this conference can be found on my TOAM08 label page. You can download the mp3 of Dave's talk or listen to it right here:


Jeremiah was appointed as a prophet to the nations. “Go to everyone I send you to and say what I command you to.”

Will we stand out as those who understand what God is doing in the uncertainty of our times? God is looking for people who know what he is saying to our world today. Jeremiah is the longest book in the Bible, except for Psalms. Dave said this book had gripped him for the past few weeks, so much so, in fact, that his wife Scilla would ask, “Are you with us?” David gave us an introduction and overview to the historical background and story of the book of Jeremiah.

Jeremiah speaks of a new heart being needed, regeneration. Jeremiah's story shows someone who was prepared to stand against prevailing opinion. Jeremiah, who was like Jesus in some ways (e.g. said not to rely on the temple) had a message for the oppressor and the oppressed.

Knowing you are called to what you are doing, and that it is not your own initiative, but God’s, is very liberating. God calls us for no reason in us. He cries out, “Who will go?” “Here am I, send me!” He calls the young and the old. He calls us to extend the kingdom in all kinds of settings. The word “appointed” to the nations can also be translated “a gift.”

Jeremiah speaks to the nation about how they are to be a blessing to the nation by whom they have been captured. They are to pray that the culture prospers, for if they prosper, the people of God will prosper. We are to be engaged in our culture, to bless our culture. Our base loyalty is to Christ, but we live on this earth in a nation. We have been scattered to bring the blessings of Abraham to the world.

God wants us to engage with the culture and yet maintain integrity, and therefore we must change from within. As a movement, and for many individuals, he wants to call us to be a “prophet to the nations.” God wants to underline that. You can be a prophet to the nations wherever you are.

Why does he believe God has called us to be a prophet to the nations?

• Theologically, we are convinced that the promises to Abraham were fulfilled in Jesus and are now to be fulfilled by those in Christ.
  
  
• We are already seeing God doing this.
  
  
• We have apostolic passion for this—that the ends of the earth may know.
  
  
• God has been prophetically leading us.

There is a need both to tear down AND to build and plant. We need to pull down non-biblical teaching and practice within the Church as it is destroying the Church. But we must also pull down a wrong world view in culture and replace it with a Christian world view. When we positively engage with the culture, but with a core value system that transforms that culture, that is the essence of being a prophet.

Terry began by recommending the outstanding biography of John Newton written by Jonathan Aitkin. I have listened to the CD version and enjoyed it immensely. I join Terry in commending it strongly to you. Terry also recommended two books by Christopher Wright on being missional.

Mark Driscoll began by returning to the marks of a spirit-filled church. He again explained to us that he believes we have been faithful in the mission. He feels, however, that perhaps we could see more fruitfulness. He is convinced that we can grow more quickly and be more effective at reaching people for Christ.

More posts from this conference can be found on my TOAM08 label page. You can download the mp3 of Mark's talk or listen to it right here:


As he began, I was very impressed that, as he prayed, he asked the Holy Spirit to guard his words, his attitude, and his tone.

Here, then, is Driscoll’s eight-point definition of the Church. Some of these constitute the being, and others the well-being of the Church.

1. Regenerated Church Membership

Qualified Church Leadership

This is, he believes, THE strength of Newfrontiers based on what he has seen. In particular, Driscoll said it is very important to hold the line on male eldership. To oppose this position is very popular among those who are not successful. You have to approach the Scriptures differently to come to the opposite position. One of the reasons Newfrontiers is strong, argues Driscoll, is because of our commitment to male elders. If we ever compromise on that issue, we will find our blessing will diminish. Continue to hold that line. To change it changes everything—how families are organized, etc. Church life sets the pattern for home life. We need pastor-dads who are shepherds to their own flock at home. Keep holding that line!!

Gathering Regularly for Preaching and Worship.

He feels he is learning a lot from us on worship. (See also what he said on his blog about Newfrontiers.)

Rightly Administered Sacraments

Unity and Affection, which is evidence of the Holy Spirit

Discipline for Holiness

Church discipline is critical. Church discipline is correction, not retribution, just the same as in the family. Not to destroy someone, but to persuade them not to continue in sin. Don't preach one thing and fail to enforce it.

Obey the Great Commandment to Love—Church and Neighbor

Obey the Great Commission to Evangelize and Make Disciples

If definitions 1 through 7 are not present, you cannot do mission because unity isn't there. Prayer and worship and fellowship can be so much loved that we somehow just trust that the work will get done. Since we also believe God is sovereign, we tend to let him figure it out. Because we are charismatics, we tend to think the Spirit will figure it out. Truth is, we need a plan, and a more intentional one. We will see some growth without an intentional plan because we’re healthy, but if we are intentional about it we will grow faster.

God will be glorified by making disciples. Don't have a branch of church called the “Mission Department.” We have to have ALL branches of our churches being missional. So kids work is about discipleship of kids, etc. We want our children to be on a mission with us, too.

There was a missionary in India, and he discovered upon his return that London had become just as pagan as India was. He realized that the churches didn't think they needed to be missional themselves. If you are a Christian, you tend to become assimilated into the subculture of the church. Take all our missional thinking and be missionaries in the West.

Some people think of church as a bomb-shelter. You can identify this by lots of “we and them” language. Here you will find lots of preaching against the culture, not engagement with it. You will find people who share your values and protect your kids. There is no attempt to evangelize. This is classic fundamentalism.

Other people see church as a mirror. This is classic liberalism. Gender issues is a classic current example. If the culture is for an issue, the church then compromises and mirrors what is in the culture. No attempt is made to redeem the culture. They may be more aware, but in the end they are less helpful.

Some see church as a parasite. They enter the culture to take out of it for themselves. There is no real giving. They want to benefit from what happens, but not do for them. Ask non-Christians what they think of the church. Their answer will be—no serving the poor, no helping, no doing good, and taking, not contributing.

Some see church as a city within a city—a city on a hill. The Church is the city of God within the city of the world. Here the Church loves Jesus, believes the Bible, practices grace, and the power of God is made known. The people live differently within the culture. They are not antagonistic or negative, but live an alternative life style. They invite others to join in this life style.

Driscoll then began to identify the twelve aspects of a missional church.

First, a missional church sees the church as a missional outpost—with a view for growth. We have a weakness in Newfrontiers, in Driscoll's view, which is a fear of multiple services. More options means more people can be reached. Multiple services should become a goal. People can tend to define the church by the number of people in a room at one time. But it should be defined by the number of people on a mission, even if they are never in a room together. Can have multiple campuses. Can have one church in more than one location as a second form of church planting. A missional church does church plant. We should set aside money specifically for church planting. At least 10 per cent of church funds at Acts 29 churches go to church planting.

Second, a missional church sees every Christian as a missionary. Cares for those with whom they come in contact. Pays attention to getting out and reaching out. Needs their people to be good theologians and good apologists. Sets things up so people naturally bring their non-Christian friends to church. Shares the gospel every single Sunday. If you think that they are all Christians, they are not! If, for example, you want men, preach to men, even if there are none there because their wives will get them to come. It can’t be a goofy presentation of the gospel, it must be a relevant one. Every week train them to recognize how everything relates to Jesus, e.g. marriage, parenting, etc. Mark shared an example of a couple in the church who couldn't understand why they shouldn't sleep together outside of marriage. He told them, “You are preaching a false gospel.” He asked them if their friends knew that they were Christians and were doing this. If so, he explained, they were saying the wrong thing with their lives. Jesus has a bride, not a girlfriend.

If people know that there will be preaching about Jesus and the gospel every week, they will bring their friends. It won’t matter what week they come. Mars Hill has a group that discusses what he has preached. Those who come don't have to be Christians and can ask questions. Most people will allow you to pray for them, even if they are atheists. As soon as you get cancer, your become an agnostic. “Would you mind if I pray for you right now?”

Bring converts on stage. Let them tell their story. Tell them to share their stories before you baptize them. Stories drive us to being missional. A church is cursed when there are no converts or babies.

Daniel and his contemporaries weren’t just in Babylon to be punished, but to be a missionary to share the knowledge of God to all those kings. Driscoll again said that in watching Newfrontiers, it was his observation that we are devoted to the Lord. But we must be more of a witness to those around us.

Third, a missional church is keenly aware of the local culture. (Acts 17—He SAW that the city was full of idols.) We must be greatly troubled. We are too submerged in our Christian subculture. We need to ask ourselves, “What is going on in the world? What is popular? Which shows are women watching? Which are men watching?” He watches teenage girl shows because he wants to know what they are thinking! He wants to get ahead of his daughter. Fast-forward them. Ultimate fighting is the fastest growing sport in the USA, for example. TV shows the different gods, whether sports, fame, sex, money, etc. Look for the idols. Watch it missiologically. Don't be naïve. Stop the movie and discuss it with them. Where is the Dad? Dad is an idiot, but the dog is smart. What are they trying to tell us? That if you can’t trust Dad, you should do it yourself. TV shows are sermons. Watch Extreme Makeover. Ask yourself, “What is missing? Why does this family need this house?” None of the families have a Dad! Where’s the Dad? Use the examples that are out there. Work illustrations into the preaching. They know who Posh Spice is, or whoever! I pay attention to your world; now let me tell you about the culture of the Bible. Listen to radio/drive time TV. Know what people are talking about. See who are the teams and tribes. Find your kids My Space page! Find the teens in your church. Facebook and My Space are like a Catholic confessional. Pay attention to the students lives in the church. What are your people reading in blogs?

Magazines have on their cover someone's definition of heaven. Car heaven, six-pack heaven, stereo heaven, photography heaven, etc. Visions of heaven. If you buy the magazine can be delivered from your hell and give you your heaven. Do these things and you will get there. It’s evangelism. How does this work with the Bible? Is that view of heaven they are offering false? Why? What is the underlying need the magazine is trying to address?

People are devoted religiously to hobbies, sports, etc. Go to the mall before the kids do! If shopkeepers are working in the middle of the afternoon they are bored. See what they are selling and buying. Ask questions of the bored store workers. He walked into a teenage girls’ clothing store. He said, “Do you have anything in my size?” He told her the truth, that he is a pastor always looking to learn, who has a daughter who is almost a teenager. “Who shops here? What do they buy?” He walked out understanding more of why girls feel pressured to look a certain way.

Grocery store. Go with the intent of looking at everything. What’s there? What does it tell you? Big organic section means there are more green people. They believe in justification by recycling so you need to have recycling bins at church! Good to learn.

First place—where do they live? Second place—where do they work? Third place—where do they play? Go to where they play. Where they would live if they could afford it! Where do they really want to be?

Do you have a total routine? Repent and stop doing it. Leave early and use it to look around. There are multiple ways to do church work—see what is happening in your neighborhood. His wife asks, “Where are we going?” He says, “Don't worry, we will get there. I’m not lost I am missiological. Interesting! There's new businesses going in here, young families moving in. Pull over and start asking people questions.

This is not British, but that is why the UK is so non-Christian.

Building works asked the foreman, “What’s going on?” Oh, couples leaving, so we’re tearing down some homes and building condos. That’s more people. Start a new community group there and welcome them into the neighborhood. What is happening?

Speak to parents. What is happening to the kids? Talk to the people who talk to the people. Ask the cashier questions. Who comes in here? Who’s the weirdest person who ever comes in here? Talk to the people in service economy. They see hundreds of thousands of people all week. They see the real deal!

What’s going on lately at the bank? Was told people are freaking out. Checks bouncing. Well, maybe we should do seminars on money then! Always look for new opportunities.

Start an evening service for new people. They had five services where he preached live, but that felt like being hit by a truck. So they went down to four services, which now feels like being hit by a car! Services at 8:30 at night are packed and people even show up late! People who are out last night won’t get up for a 9 a.m. service. He pastors people publicly by text message, i.e. asks questions anonymously. Someone once asked, “I have been raped, can I get an abortion?”

Consider everybody in your church. It’s okay to be family friendly, have a great kids program, help your marriage. But if you’re not careful, singles may get the impression that you don't want them, don't need them, don't like them. Now there are more unmarried than married people! These days being married to a woman and having children is countercultural. If someone who is the product of an abused home walks in, etc., it’s not about trying to maintain a good family.

When preaching through the book of Ruth, Mars Hill showed great growth at that time. They had to turn 300 people away from one of their services! Is your church welcoming, friendly, a hospital to those people? Or is it all married couples and families?

Missional church contends and contextualizes. Jude says “Contend for the faith.” What are we going to fight over? What’s in the closed hand? You guys love the Bible, Jesus, the cross, the resurrection, the ministry of the Holy Spirit, the poor, the lost, church planting. Keep that! Fight for them! But also contextualize. By ALL MEANS save as MANY people as possible. Do it for the sake of the gospel. Open the door to your church as broadly as you can without compromising. Use technology, etc.

We are NOT trying to make Christianity relevant, but rather are showing that it IS ALREADY relevant.

If a teenage girl tells you she lost her virginity to her father, the gospel IS relevant to her, but she needs to be shown HOW it is. So said I need to speak to you about expiation. “I’ve no idea about what that means!” Took some time, showed her that what was done to her the Bible calls a sin, a horrific evil. Fathers are privileged to carry the name father and carry it with nobility and honor. What has happened to you is shocking. What did you do afterwards? Took a shower because I felt dirty. You were defiled. The Bible says there is sin that is done by us and against us. And sin does make us dirty. “I will always feel dirty.” Jesus is God. He came to earth, was abused and beaten and tormented and shamed. He was humiliated and tortured. He can sympathize with you. God was sinned against. Jesus went to the cross and they killed him. But he forgives our sin AND cleanses us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1). She said, “I feel totally ashamed.” Jesus endured the cross and scorned its shame. Jesus died not only to forgive you, but to cleanse you from the sins against you. That shower was an effort for you to cleanse yourself, but it can’t cleanse your soul, your identity, your femininity. The gospel was relevant to her! She responded immediately. Driscoll said to her, “Choose to see yourself as Jesus does. You need Jesus so you can be cleansed, pure, and wear white!”

We don't MAKE Jesus relevant; we show how he already IS relevant.

This morning I attended the first segment of the training track, Prophetic Encounter. Today's session, "Apostles and Prophets Together on a Mission," emphasized that there is great strength in apostles and prophets working together. They are often seen as complementary gifts in the early church as they help to lay foundations and bring adjustment to erroneous practices in church life. Today's session was led by Guy Miller and Julian Adams.

Guy is based in Bournemouth, UK and heads up the team that oversees the Wessex region. Guy also leads the eldership team at Citygate Church, Bournemouth, and has responsibilities in India and Portugal. He is married to Heather and they have four children.

Julian Adams is originally from The Bay Community Church, Cape Town, South Africa, where he was an elder. He moved to the UK in August 2006 in response to God's leading for him to be with Terry Virgo for a season and become part of Church of Christ the King, Brighton. In August 2007, he returned to South Africa for a few months before returning to Teesside in the north of England. Julian has traveled widely, serving Newfrontiers churches in the UK and elsewhere.

More posts from this conference can be found on my TOAM08 label page. You can download the mp3s of this week's talks by subscribing to the new Newfrontiers podcast, which will be an easy way for you to get access to the mp3s for free.

In introducing the seminar, Guy reminded us of the similar seminar from last year. I was there myself and can testify to the life-changing nature of the time. The prophecies given to me last year were very important and influential on my life. There are some implications of that which I will be sharing on my blog at some point in the coming weeks.

As for two specific things that happened last year in this seminar— one guy was singled out and prophesied over in a highly specific way, and a church plant in Paris was the result. There was also a barren woman who now has a baby.

Prophets do sometimes disrupt nice tidy churches. But people sometimes take a prophetic word out of context and turn it into individualism. Actually, it should build the local church, not send people into isolation.

Ephesians 2 and other places speak of apostles and prophets working together. We believe the gifts in Ephesians 4 are intended for today.

How do apostles and prophets work together? Not everyone is a prophet or apostle. Apostles equip, build, and plant churches and help them to be healthy. Apostles know how to build the church with Jesus as the foundation. They are given by the ascended Christ. They draw all the other gifts back to building the local church. Apostles lay the hidden foundations. No one ever says you have lovely foundations in your house! If apostolic ministry is working, then people see a glorious church, although they might not always realize what the foundations are.

The Church is built on apostles and prophets who work together. A prophet is not someone who sometimes prophesies. They are big picture men. People who catch the Church up to the bigger framework of God's unfolding plans in history.

Jesus is the cornerstone; everything else fits to him. Jesus is the center. Apostolic ministry sniffs out legalism and teaches grace. Apostolic ministry is missional. The great days of mission are before us as a movement. Apostolic ministry is concerned about the poor.

Two reasons why apostles work with prophets. One is for accountability. Are you going beyond what God said? Has it come true? Are you ministering out of pride or hurt? Prophetic ministry can break the status quo. But we can treat prophecy with contempt. The second is authority. Without authority, prophecy is dangerous. Prophetic can lead to “I am doing what I want to do.” The other thing is that we have to interpret how to respond. Agabus predicted a famine and a response was needed. Later on, when he predicted the imprisonment of Paul, the correct response was for Paul to do nothing and keep going. Apostles will know how to respond to the word of prophecy.

Julian Adams then came up and spoke about his experiences of working in partnership with apostles. He explained that he worked alongside Simon Petit, who valued the prophetic highly and then applied it radically. For Simon, prophetic encounters drove much of the shape of ministry. Traveling with Simon opened a bigger picture of what the Church was. It made him want to give the rest of his life to building the local church. We must see something of the mystery of Christ and his Church. They want to see the Church become all that she should become.

He then turned to Matthew 16 and began reading at verse 30. It is ongoing revelation of the resurrected Christ that is the foundation of the Church. We don't add things to the Bible, as the Bible is enough. But there is a living, speaking, talking, caring, loving Jesus who wants to reveal himself to you in order to shape your destiny and direct the Church, which is still His.

Prophets flow from a place of encountering Jesus in order to receive blueprints and revelation so that the Church can be built. Each church has a location, a personality, a blueprint. The prophet recalls the blueprint for that locality.

Someone who prophesies is not necessarily a prophet. The first way you know someone is not a prophet is when they call themselves a prophet! There is a “spirit of prophecy” which can affect people in the room when a group of prophetic individuals are together. Baptism with the Holy Spirit is often the gateway gift, allowing things to flow together. Hang out with other prophets. But not ones who are too weird.

Ask God for words of knowledge and prophecy. Ask also him for an impartation from other prophets. You can flow in the gift of prophecy much more. It is our inheritance to move in prophecy. All of God's servants are now able to hear his voice (see Acts 2 where Joel is quoted). We didn't get saved just because of a good preacher—the Spirit of God spoke to our spirit and caused it to become alive so we could respond to him.

Don't follow after prophetic words, follow after intimate communion with the Father. We have access. The big difference between Old and New Testament prophets is that everyone under the new covenant can hear from God, not just the prophet. The prophet is given to the Church.

Prophets speak with a different authority. The reason for prophecy is not that people can be individually blessed. Instead, it is to set the individual into a place where they can function best to help people. The prophetic carried weight in the early Church. "There is going to be a drought," said Agabus, and they immediately made provision. They weighed prophecy. We must not take them flippantly. Get the Church ready for Christ's return. Add weight to the Word.

Faith is the activating ingredient to see the Word of God come to pass. Ministry that apostles and prophets have in common is that they come into a context to break legalism, control, and the spirit of Jezebel. No word is too big for your local church. Prophets and apostles will do a consultation with them. Prophets feel things, sense things. It's like an antenna—it can get crossed sometimes. Sometimes the prophets don't even realize what they are doing. A wise apostolic man will pick up on what is being said and apply it. Prophetic people get rejected. Prophets are in the pit. They get frustrated. Sometimes that frustration leads to rejection of the Church. But you can't love Christ without loving his bride. You cannot carry the head around without his body.
Apostolic ministry is not management speak. The point is that we need revelation by the Spirit. We need signs and wonders. Fall in love with Jesus. He is empowering you to live a resurrected life! Let's love him a little bit! God wants to hear your voice. Lift him up. God is not deaf, but he's not scared either!

During the worship time this morning, Keith Hazell shared an interesting prophetic word. It spoke about a wind coming that would shake things in our land, but also a great time of blessing for us. He felt that there would be new alliances forged and new opportunities presented to the church by the government.

This morning's preacher was David Stroud. Dave leads ChristChurch, London, and the Newfrontiers UK team. He has been involved in leading churches for over sixteen years; ChristChurch is the third church that he has planted. He is married to Philippa, and they have three children.

More posts from this conference can be found on my TOAM08 label page. You can download the mp3 of Dave's talk or listen to it here:


David began by speaking of how Andrew Murray at Wimbledon was, in an instant, able to turn around from losing and being a point away from elimination to eventually winning the championship. A leader has to ask, “How can I turn things around?” We often have to ask that of ourselves, our families, our churches, and our communities.

When Saul started trembling on the inside, the people picked up on it. The army panicked and went into hiding. Saul got an appraisal from God via a prophet. He was told that he was getting fired. The next man had already been found. Saul gave into fear three times. When that happens, you think about yourself. When that happens, you end up in sin. To understand this, we must see the contrast between Saul and Jonathan. Saul is bad, Jonathan is good, and we are to learn from him. Jonathan says, “C'mon! Let's go up!” His amor bearer says, “I’m with you!” Attacking up hill is difficult.

The goal was to go to the outpost, but panic meant the whole army would kill each other. It is all about Jonathan through the entire passage to the end, when it says, “The LORD saved Israel.”

What can we learn from this passage?

Jonathan Did Not Give Up Hope
When you give up hope you do nothing because there is nothing to do. Saul was hopeless, but Jonathan had boldness. Optimism is good, but it's not enough. Anyone can do optimism, but what God has called us to do is fundamentally different. It is something rooted in God. Jonathan's outlook was shaped by the Lord, what he knew of God, and what God had promised the people.

We can have hope because of what Jesus has done. The big hope-giver is his resurrection. He wasn't just a man who lived and made incredible claims. Because he is raised, you realize everything he said is true.

When your God is not in the grave, people get transformed and healed. One man from their church came out of the theater after a meeting and asked a homeless man if he wanted a meal. The homeless man replied that he couldn't walk to a nearby Kentucky Fried Chicken because his feet were so swollent. So the guy from the church went and brought back the food to him. Then he prayed for him and the man's feet were totally healed. He was leaping for joy, saying, "Jesus healed my feet!!" There is a scene in Lord of the Rings where it is said, “Everything sad is going to come untrue” because of the resurrection of Gandalf. How much more the resurrection of Jesus!!

Jonathan said, “Perhaps the Lord . . .” — He keeps breaking in on our lives!

If you are a man of hope you will gather the right people around you. Then you can stand on their shoulders. Look for faith and flexibility in the hearts of the people you want to draw around you.

Saul was very lazy. Nobody even noticed people leaving the camp. Even the basics were being badly done. The most basic thing is turning up. It's your relationship with God. How is it going? Easier to be with the Lord when you have hope. Stay good at the basics. Keep your life pure. David was also lazy on the basics (on the roof, not at war). Don't be lazy. Hope fuels intimacy.

Saul was a maintenance man, but Jonathan was focused on expansion. When Saul saw the enemy running, you would have thought he would rush in. Instead, he took a roll call. He wanted to know who was responsible, what had happened—like a management approach. We should be about breaking out from here and breaking into new areas. Are you keeping everything running smoothly or are you breaking out?

Saul Was Stuck in Passivity
Jonathan was full of action. Saul was not. We can get into cycles where we never get interrupted. We can lead quiet lives of desperation. What stops us from taking the initiative? Mostly not knowing whether it's the right thing or not. But neither did Jonathan. Sometimes God confirms things once we are moving, rather than while we are standing still waiting. Take action and expect God to speak as you go. Don't wait to be sure that it is right before you take the first steps.

There were obstacles ahead. Jonathan had an army lacking in motivation, with two swords, an unassailable position, and just one other man with him. You don't have to know how to overcome the obstacles before you reach them.

The fear of failure. We don't like failing. But that wasn't an obstacle. We will massively limit the number of things we do if we think we need to be sure it will work before it starts. The ones who succeed the most are the ones who fail the most. Don't allow the concern of failing to hold you back. A long list of failings means you can have a long list of successes as well. The LORD had given the Philistines into their hands. He gets going, but is waiting for faith before he takes the really big step.

There is a world of difference between bravado and faith. You need your own faith. We do sometimes hear someone else's story and our faith is ignited. Real faith is given when we KNOW what is going to happen. The walk of faith—up the cliff. He had no defenses as it was hands and feet. He had to keep going. When they got to the top, they did what they could do, with God's help. The task at hand was actually quite small. Twenty men were killed. Then God did something far bigger. Panic and an earthquake from God came. They couldn't have done that!

Dream and ask the Lord—"What can I do that is imaginably more than I could ask or dream?" Our dream is that our nation will feel different. That there will be that atmosphere. We want to see tens of thousands coming to Christ, with vast churches built that are full of the Word and Spirit. We want the appetite for gossip to change so that the newspapers have to change what they print. That the prisons are empty. That more people get married and stay married. That the poor get hope from the Church. That stories and films will be created that are positive, wholesome, and are blockbusters. That people who think develop scholarship that defends godliness and goodness. We want godly artists that make our culture richer. No one of us can do that. But if each of us take our individual outposts, who knows what God will do?

This was a faith-imparting message. It painted a big picture of a vision for a transformed nation. It raised our hopes and encouraged us to take those little actions that God is putting before us.

One of the great joys of this conference is that it is a gathering of friends. I had a lovely tea at the Grand Hotel on the Brighton seafront with my dear friends, Ian and Megan Jukes, Andrew and Cheryl Cottingham, and Tom Eaton. We had a lot of fun, and the connection was re-established. I suddenly realized that around Brighton many such reunions of longstanding friends who are also attending this conference are undoubtedly happening.

During the worship time there were some stirring prophetic words that spoke of us becoming more prominent and that there would be new openings for us as a movement.

Terry Virgo was the speaker last night. He is based right here in Brighton at Church of Christ the King, and leads the Newfrontiers team. A well-known Bible teacher, Terry speaks at conferences around the world. He has written several books, including No Well-Worn Paths, God's Lavish Grace, and The Tide is Turning. Terry blogs here, and I have interviewed him at the following pages:

• Terry Virgo on the Future (June 2007)
  
  
• Terry and Wendy Virgo at New Word Alive (Video Interview, April 2008)
  
  
• Terry and Wendy Virgo at New Word Alive (Transcript of Video Interview)

More posts from this conference can be found on my TOAM08 label page. You can download the mp3 of Terry's talk, or listen to it right here:


As a background, Terry was praying with his wife, Wendy, about other things. Suddenly he heard the phrase, “Stephen and Philip.” It was so clear that he asked his wife, “Did you just say Stephen and Philip?” He felt that God had asked him to look at these men, who were not front line people, not Apostles, but served God's purpose in a remarkable way.

Terry began last evening's session by reading extracts from Acts 6-7 to us.

In Acts 2 we see the Holy Spirit came on the disciples and a large number repented. The Spirit then fell on thousands of other people. No longer was it just one or two people. There was a sudden invasion of the presence of God. God himself flooded the place. Five thousand people were saved in one day, but since only the men were counted, when the women and children were included, it would probably have been around 20,000 people!

It then goes on to speak of large multitudes being added to the Church. All were healed—vast numbers. Thousands. Jesus had conquered death and was out of a sealed grave. The Sanhedrin took the leaders and locked them in prison, and almost like another resurrection, they were gone the next morning and were in the temple preaching. It was impossible to hold down these people!

Stephen and Philip arrive on the scene at a time when much growth is occurring. There is a crisis of growth. It was a social thing. God is interested in the poor and the orphans. We need to express our love in terms that help the poor and needy.

Contention arises between the Greek and Jewish widows. There is a challenge to justice. The Apostles know they must prioritize prayer and the preaching. They don't just want sharp guys who can administrate; they ask for men full of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit enables them. It is that filling by the Spirit that confirms that they are equipped and chosen by God.

Both of these men were so flooded with God that they did more than they had been appointed to do. They overflowed with God and began to preach and heal despite not being Apostles. They did signs and wonders. [Incidentally, the thought struck me here that those who claim that healings were only intended to attest to the original Apostles are not really taking into account these two people, among others!]

The servants of God are backed up in the Bible by supernatural evidences that God is with them. There are seasons in the Old Testament when people are far from God and it seems the supernatural is far from them. Then, again and again, when they turn back to God, signs and wonders occur.

Romans 15:18 — “What Christ has accomplished through me ... by the power of the Spirit of God.”

There are some who argue that signs and wonders ceased when the Scriptures were closed. But we believe God wants to do things to confirm and affirm his Word. Some are saying that it is not for today. Jesus told us that we would do the same things he did. He has received the Holy Spirit and all authority, and he now sends the Spirit and says, “Go and do the things that I do!”

In recent years we have seen an escalation of healing among us—more than in previous decades. Terry asked who had seen a healing in their own church in the last five years. Almost every person in the room raised a hand. Because of the lights, Terry wasn't able to see everyone and said “hundreds” were raising their hands. The truth is, it was thousands.

We must break through our cynicism and unbelief and come back to biblical Christianity—Word and deed. We must press on and ask for more.

It's no good only arguing for the authority of Scripture. We must also act as though we believe in the reality of the supernatural God. Present contact with the supernatural is not far off and strange.

Francis Schaeffer, in Death in the City, claims that too many Christians act as if they come into contact with the supernatural twice in their lives—at conversion and resurrection. Instead, we live as materialists:

"Christianity is not just a mental assent that certain doctrines are true—not even that the right doctrines are true. This is only the beginning. This would be rather like a starving man sitting in front of great heaps of food and saying, “I believe the food exists; I believe it is real,” and yet never eating it. It is not enough merely to say, “I am a Christian,” and then in practice to live as if present contact with the supernatural were something far off and strange. Many Christians I know seem to act as though they come in contact with the supernatural just twice—once when they are justified and become a Christian, and once when they die. The rest of the time they act as though they were sitting in the materialist’s chair.

The difference between a Christian who is being supernatural in practice and one who says he is a Christian but lives like a materialist can be illustrated by the difference between a storage battery and a light plug. Some Christians seem to think that when they are born again, they become a self-contained unit like a storage battery. From that time on they have to go on their own pep and their own power until they die. But this is wrong. After we are justified, once for all through faith in Christ, we are to live in supernatural communion with the Lord every moment; we are to be like lights plugged into an electric socket."

Francis Schaeffer, Death in the City, page 147

Stephen was a "wisdom and power" man. These days there are two lots of websites—there are power websites and there are wisdom websites. If you go to the power site, there is no wisdom. If you go to the wisdom site, there is no power. Why do websites where we hear much about power have little in the way of good teaching? Why do the sites where we love to listen to the teaching know nothing of the power?

We can't say, “Let's forget the wisdom and get into the power.” You don't get into power by blowing your brains away. Paul doesn't depend on wisdom, but he is described as reasoning and persuading people about the kingdom of God. There can be a powerful people raised up who also know such wisdom that it cannot be contradicted.

We need apologists, people who can help people think. Too often we close our minds to the gospel unreasonably. We need to break through that in a fresh way. In some ways this whole section of Terry's talk reminded me of my post on “I Don't Want Balance, I Want It All.”

Terry introduced Mark by mentioning his currently available books, all of which he highly recommended. You can buy these from the Newfrontiers resources page. It was nice to see my pastor, Tope Koleoso, on the stage praying for Mark just before he began preaching. It was interesting that just a couple of weeks ago Tope also spoke on being missional in a talk that was impacting to me.

In case anyone hasn’t been reading blogs for the past two years, Mark Driscoll founded Mars Hill Church in Seattle in 1996. It has grown to over 6,000 people. He co-founded and is President of the Acts 29 Church Planting Network, which has planted over 100 churches in the USA and internationally. Most recently he founded and leads the Resurgence Missional Theology Cooperative. The Church Report has recognized Mark as the 22nd most influential pastor in America. His sermons are downloaded more than a million times a year. Mark is married to Grace and they enjoy raising their three sons and two daughters.

More posts from this conference can be found on my TOAM08 label page. You can download the mp3 of Mark's talk or listen to it right here:


Driscoll began by speaking of being brought up in a nominal Catholic family. Then his mother was saved in the Catholic charismatic movement, so spoke in tongues to Mary! Later on he started going out with a pastor’s daughter, and as a result became a Christian. He explained, “If you are a Calvinist, God saved me; if you are an Arminian, I gave my life to the Lord.” He then spoke about how God audibly spoke to him, “Marry the woman, plant churches, preach the Bible, and train men.”

He explained that in Seattle there are more dogs than kids. Now eleven years into having started Mars Hill Church, they are in the top thirty fastest growing churches in the USA, are seeing many saved, and run a multi-campus church with seventeen services in seven locations. He plans to stay in Seattle for the rest of his life.

Driscoll then humbly explained that through his experiences here in Brighton he wants to learn from those of us in Newfrontiers. He is appreciative for the love of the Spirit and the passion for worship he has seen here. He was not afraid to say that he is also here to serve and build on our movement and contribute something to us. He stated up front that he felt that the particular thing he could contribute was to help us become more precise as missionaries. I found that phrase to be an intriguing one, but he didn't explain it immediately.

Rather, he began to explain that while he himself clearly holds a charismatic theology and prays for the sick and demonized, he has a number of concerns about charismatics in general. He has often described himself as a “charismatic with a seat belt.”

Having looked at charismatic movements, he listed five problems he has with them, and boldly stated that he believed that we in Newfrontiers have avoided four of the five. He warned us to brace ourselves because some friendly words of rebuke were coming. At that point you certainly wanted to pay attention! As he listed his “problems” and explained them—and as nice as he was when he told us he thought we were okay on them—we braced ourselves for the blows we knew were coming!

MARK DRISCOLL’S PROBLEMS WITH CHARISMATICS

Sometimes charismatics focus on the wrong person. The Spirit’s objective is to teach us to love Jesus. He feels from his observation of Newfrontiers that we as a movement have avoided this common error of an over-focus on the Spirit to the exclusion of Jesus.

Sometimes charismatics focus on the wrong event. He explained that for many charismatics, Pentecost is their primary focus. But Pentecost was not the primary moment—it pointed back to the death and resurrection of Jesus. The cross was not just the prelude to the so-called “main event” of the coming of the Spirit. You only rightly appreciate Pentecost when you see it as the application of the cross. Driscoll also believed we in Newfrontiers have avoided that error and are cross-centered.

Some who love the Spirit have been corrupted by the view that it is all about prosperity. Driscoll commended Newfrontiers for being a Bible-loving people, and that we have not given way to the “health and wealth” teaching. Driscoll’s big problem with such “word of faith” teaching is that it basically says if you have enough faith in Jesus you will not be like him. He was poor and suffering! Some say all Christians should be rich and healthy!

Sometimes charismatics focus on the wrong person as the definition of what it is to be Spirit-filled and Spirit-led. As a result, charismatic leaders are often held up as an example to follow. The person gets lifted up. What Driscoll appreciates about Terry Virgo is that he lifts up Jesus. As Mark would go on to explain, it is in the life of Jesus that we find the perfect example of how to be filled with the Spirit, not in some leader.

Sometimes charismatics are insufficiently missional. He feels this is a big danger, especially if the charismatic is wedded to reformed theology. The danger is that we can begin to say, “It’s all up to God.” I thought here about people who do nothing about sharing the gospel, but instead just wait for revival. This is the one he feels that we in Newfrontiers may not have completely avoided. We are committed to mission, but not quite. We have almost hit the bull’s eye, but not quite. He did not mean this as a criticism, but as a way to help us improve. We have planted a lot of churches, but we should be moving even more quickly. We should be planting more. We should be giving more money. What is lacking sometimes is how we connect to culture and reach out to cultures and plant churches.

ROLES OF THE HOLY SPIRIT FROM THE BOOKS OF LUKE AND ACTS

Mark made a strong case for Luke and Acts being a joint work which focuses on the work of the Spirit in the life of Christ and then in the Christian. It is striking how many times Luke reports on the work of the Spirit.

The structure behind Driscoll’s talk was to point out all the different things that the Holy Spirit does.

The Spirit fills people.
Luke 1 — “Filled with the Holy Spirit even from his mother's womb.” We are to be filled with the Spirit also, and to love the Spirit.

Spirit-filled ministry includes miracles.
The angel said to Mary, “The Holy Spirit will overshadow . . .” A virgin gives birth. The Spirit prepares the coming of Jesus, works in the ministry of Jesus, and continues to work in the Church.

Spirit-filled ministry includes prayer.
When Mary met Elizabeth it says that her baby was filled with the Spirit. “The baby leaped for joy.” Elizabeth then prays gratefully, and also blesses Mary.

Spirit-filled ministry includes prophecy.
Zechariah was Spirit-filled and prophesied. Later, when the shepherds were in the fields and the angel came, they were filled with fear, and good news came. The news was revealed to them. Here is a Savior, Christ the Lord—which actually means one who is anointed by God the Holy Spirit. When Jesus was brought to the temple as a baby, more prophetic revelation came.

One of the ministries of Jesus is to baptize us with the Holy Spirit and fire for mission.
Luke 3:15 — “Baptize with the Holy Spirit.” There was also a division that came. Jesus inspires wonder and worship and also opposition. When the Spirit is in your midst, there is conflict and division. There are seasons of conflict. People get blown away.

At Jesus’ baptism the heavens opened and the Spirit descended on him like a dove. This is one of the clearest pictures of the Trinity in the entire Bible. God speaks from heaven to his Son, and the Spirit comes visibly and publicly. There is a clear demonstration to the public that the Spirit had anointed him. In Acts, the Spirit descends on the Church publicly to anoint the Church in much the same way as he anointed Jesus.

BUT . . .WHY WOULD JESUS NEED ANOINTING?

We must remember how Jesus came. He came in carnal flesh! In meat. The omnipresent came to a place. He who was without beginning and end was born of a woman. There is a great debate about how we are to see Jesus. Hypostatic union — Jesus one person, two natures — fully God, fully man. He did what only God could do.

God doesn't grow and learn, but as a man Jesus did grow and learn. The God who doesn't change changed physically. How could God become a man? Jesus didn't lose or dilute his divinity. Rather he added to it his humanity.

Christians tend to see Jesus as a little more human or a little more divine. The first are liberals. The second don't believe that Jesus was really tempted, or that he truly suffered. Jesus was like Superman, they say — like a Galilean peasant on the outside, but on the inside indestructible.

How did Jesus live his life? How did he resist sin? How did he love his enemies? How did he live for three years with Judas Iscariot? How did Jesus go to the cross and say, “Father forgive them”?

Some just say he was God. But Jesus was and is fully God, and while on the earth he was indeed still fully God. But he didn't live a life that we cannot imitate. Jesus wasn't faking it when he suffered. He was like us and tempted in the same way we are.

Philippians 2:5-11. He laid aside his rights. He emptied himself, became a slave. He was still God, but set aside the rights of divinity. He deserved to be worshipped and was scorned, he deserved to be praised and was mocked. He laid aside the continual use of his divine attributes, not the actual attributes themselves. He chose to learn, he chose to be tempted. He did use the divine attributes from time to time, e.g. to forgive sin. He didn't use them all the time.

How then did he do it? How did he live his life? He did it by the power of the Holy Spirit. That’s why we see the Spirit coming on him and resting on him, to enable him to live his life on earth. He was the second Adam. How did he say "no" to sin? By the power of the Spirit. How did he obey? How did he heal? How did he cast out demons? It was all by the power of the Holy Spirit. He was Spirit-filled, spirit-anointed and Spirit-led. What does it mean to be a charismatic? It means to be like Jesus! Most of the creeds miss out on his life. They say he was born and he died. What else did he do? We must focus on what is missing in the creeds—the Spirit-filled and anointed life of Jesus.

Let’s apply this to missiology. Jesus lived in heaven and came to earth — that’s a missionary. He lived in heaven in a culture of no sin where God was honored. He came to a culture which was rebellious and sinful. We tend to overlook the fact that Jesus was a missionary. The Spirit loves to empower those who are on a mission. Not just so we can pray better, worship louder, give more generously, but that we will be better missionaries to expand the knowledge of God to the ends of the earth. To be Spirit-filled and Spirit-led is to be missional because Jesus was!

[At this point, Mark returned to describing for us all the various things the Holy Spirit does.]

The Spirit leads us sometimes into hardship, testing, and temptation.
Luke 4 — Jesus—full of the Holy Spirit. He was led from the Jordan into the wilderness. He was led by the Spirit to the devil!

We are led to active ministry, and to contemplative ministry. Connect to God before you go to serve him. Anointing leads to silence, solitude, prayer, and contemplation, as well as testing, temptation, and fasting. He tests our character and prepares us. If you go through such a time, remember the same thing happened to Jesus.

Don't be always doing, but never being. Jesus was tempted and tested, and because he resisted sin, it was confirmed that he was prepared for ministry.

Spirit-anointed ministry includes preaching.
Luke 4:14 — Silence precedes speech and contemplation precedes action. Spirit-filled preaching does not come without periods of silence, prayer, and fasting. The power of the Spirit is needed to preach.

Luke 4:17 — Spirit is still anointing him to do the work. He was anointed to proclaim liberty.

Spirit-anointed ministry includes justice for the poor.

Spirit-filled ministry includes joy in God.
Luke 10:21 — Jesus rejoiced in the Holy Spirit. Driscoll feels this is something we in Newfrontiers can give to him. He says that he has a tendency to emphasize the negative, to see sin, to identify errors, to see what mistakes are being made. What he experienced in worship here reminded him of that verse about how Jesus rejoiced in the Holy Spirit. That is what we were doing here in the worship times. [Driscoll seemed to have been quite affected by our worship time.]

We can rejoice in God when we still see the suffering of this world, but beyond it we see God. We can weep or we can sing and dance and clap in the Spirit. Jesus saw the grace of God in children and enjoyed their company.

The Spirit is given to us by the Father.
Jesus said in a parable that if you know how to give good gifts, the Father will give the Spirit to those who ask. If you like to live a life like mine, says Jesus, you better ask my Father for the Holy Spirit. The power of the Spirit makes the Christian life possible. We need to continually ask the Father for more of the Spirit so we can learn well, suffer well, serve well, and die well.

The Spirit teaches us what to say. (Luke 12:11)
He enables us to speak to people. He helps us to speak in such a way that there is no explanation for the results apart from his power.

In the book of Acts, Luke continues with what Jesus did. He died for our sins, rose for our justification, conquered Satan. You would think that was enough and that he had done it all. Acts records the rest. Acts 1 says what Jesus did was THROUGH the Holy Spirit. Having seen what Jesus did through the Spirit, Luke introduces us to the idea that the same Spirit could come on the disciples so they could do the same things.

Power is needed to do ministry properly. This power is given so we can be missionaries. How do you know someone has the Holy Spirit? It’s because they are on a mission.

We are on a mission. In Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and to the ends of the earth. Start where you are. We can’t just go across the world. We need to go across the street. It’s easy to pray for the ends of the earth and neglect the ends of the street. How is your witness in Jerusalem? Do you KNOW people in your road? In your workplace? Is Jesus visible? If you are good witnesses in Jerusalem you will never be lacking for church planters. You harvest church planters in your church, in your neighborhood, in your street.

Jesus ascended into heaven where he had come from. You can imagine they would want to tell the world straight away, “Jesus is alive; he has conquered sin and death.” But they had to WAIT. Some of us have to wait. It’s not yet time. Imagine that—they sit on this news for weeks! It is an astonishing thing that even though their message was so wonderful, they were not allowed to proclaim it until they had been filled with the Holy Spirit.

Charismatics have Acts 2 on the fridge. We all know this one! Sounds like a mighty rushing wind.

Jesus was a missionary. The Church is to be a missionary, too. A Spirit-anointed Jesus anointed the Church. He wants us to do the works of Jesus. We must connect Acts with Luke. We are to be enabled and empowered to live a life like Jesus—a life fill of authority and mission.

The Spirit anoints so that the gospel can be communicated in every language, tongue, and dialect so that the vision of Revelation can come true!

Spirit-filled ministry results in repentance.
Brothers, what shall we do? Repentance is one of the greatest evidences of the work of the Spirit within us. Many today preach encouragement—try harder, do better. But we must preach repentance. Preaching repentance is only fitting for those who practice repentance. We may practice worldly sorrow, but it doesn't rock us to the depths and compel us to change. We have our back to God and our face towards sin. Repentance puts our face towards God and our back to sin.

Spirit-filled ministry brings conversion.
The verse continues, “Be baptized and you will receive the Spirit. That day there were added to the church 3,000 souls.” Many today are not interested in true conversion. It’s about passing from death to life. We need the power of the Spirit to lead to repentance and conversion.

Spirit-filled ministry brings devotion to one another and awe towards God.
Acts 2 — Awe, prayer, food, fellowship. Jesus is alive! Are you in awe of that? All our sins are forgiven! Are you in awe of that?

We are part of the ministry of Jesus doing anointed work by the power of the Spirit — the same one who raised Jesus from the dead! Do you have a sense of awe? We don't deserve ministry. We need awe in it. Don't lose your sense of awe. That is the way Judas Iscariot became what he did.

We also need a sense of gratefulness that the Spirit has regenerated us and enabled and gifted us. Absolute wonder. We get to be a part of it!

We must not resist, quench, or grieve the Holy Spirit.

The Church was birthed by the power and ministry of the Holy Spirit. The Lord added daily those being saved. What constitutes a church? Define what it is and does. You don't want to lose your faithfulness. It's not just Word and sacrament. Rather it is the work of the Holy Spirit. Without the Holy Spirit the Church does not exist.

EIGHT MARKS OF THE CHURCH IN ACTS

Community of regenerated believers. You are not a part of the Church if you are not a Christian! Jesus died for us, but the Spirit must regenerate us and cause us to be reborn. 2 Corinthians 5:21. Imputation goes both ways. The great exchange—the doctrine of justification. N. T. Wright gets the resurrection right and the cross wrong! Fight the war for justification, BUT don't neglect regeneration! Regeneration is that God gives us a new heart. A new creation. My new life as a missionary on the earth. Heart of stone gone, flesh given. Sin nature gone, new nature given. Life patterned after life of Jesus.

The heart is the center of everything—so a new heart means a new identity, a new passion, new gifts, a new purpose, new power, new desires. I get to live a whole new life. LEGALISM tells us that we HAVE TO DO things; the gospel tells us we GET TO DO things. “I want to serve God; I want to pray; I want to read my Bible; I want to learn humility; I don't want to be ashamed, I want him to say “Well done”; I want to enter into my rest. Living for our strongest desires, not merely to "not sin." It’s not merely to avoid the bad things, but to love God. It is the Spirit that delivers us and gives us new desires to love God and to do good. Temptations come, but our deepest desire should be for God and the things of God. Joyful, meaningful, purposeful life that never ends, but continues in his presence!

Mark didn't get a chance to cover all of the marks of the Church in Acts, but implied he would look at them later. He briefly mentioned them. The Church:

1. Is Organized
   
2. Is gathered
   
3. Observes the sacraments
   
4. Is unified
   
5. Is scattered as missionaries
   
6. Gives God glory
   
7. Experiences joy

Holy Spirit longs, desires, wills to anoint us for the glory of Jesus—to live like him, for him, and to him as a missionary to the ends of the earth!

Driscoll prayed for us as a movement and asked God to take our appreciation for the Bible and love for Jesus and unite within us fervent desires to live a life like Jesus, with Jesus, and FOR Jesus! He thanked God who sent the Son as an example, sent the Spirit as an enabler, and sent US to the world. He wanted us to be Spirit-filled, Spirit-led, justified, regenerated, spirit-compelled. He said our goal of 1,000 churches is too small! And that there were many nations where church plants were to be accomplished.

Jesus has a passion for the earth that he made!
We are to love Jesus because he first loved us, and to love the world because we love Jesus.

Well . . . I’m here! And the Brighton conference has begun. The sense of anticipation and excitement is incredible. Joyful reunions of friends who have been on separate continents are happening everywhere. We are really a family. We are really on a mission.

At the beginning of the week, I would ask that you pray for me. It is a busy week for me with typing, interviewing, and, of course, just meeting friends. My jet lag is improving quickly. I was also determined this year, more than usual, to press into God in the worship time. Sometimes when live-blogging, it's possible to feel a bit detached from the goings on just because you’re typing away. Please pray for me about that.

Also, please pray for my long-suffering wife, Andrée, who I have left at home with our five children. May God carry her and give her real grace as what she is doing is more important than what I am doing. No one is going to die if I mistype a word here! I am already missing her and looking forward to seeing her again at the end of the week.

Right from the start I wanted to ensure I focused on God. Sitting near the front, and being intentional about it, I certainly found myself carried into an awareness of the presence of God by the thousands in the room, the worship band, and the wonderful words of the songs. We learned a great new song. It began, “His name is Jesus, Risen Savior” and was a triumphant celebration of the death and resurrection of our Savior. The song is from Lou Fellingham's new album, which can also be bought as mp3 downloads. Vibrant is not a strong enough word to describe the feel of this worship time.

As Nigel Ring prepared to introduce our first speaker, he told us that 20 per cent of the world’s nations are represented at this conference. He read out the name of each country, and there was a corresponding “whoop” after each nation was mentioned. There are 52 nations in attendance:

Albania, Armenia, Australia, Bangladesh, Belgium, Bolivia, Brazil
Cambodia, Canada, Cyprus, Denmark, Ethiopia, France
Germany, Ghana, Guinea, India, Ireland, Israel, Japan, Kenya, Latvia
Lesotho, Mexico, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nigeria
Nigeria, Oman, Pakistan, Peru, Philippines, Portugal, Romania, Russia
Serbia, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Tajikistan, Turkey
Uganda, Channel Islands, England, Isle of Man, Northern Ireland
Scotland, Wales, Ukraine, UAE, USA, Zambia, Zimbabwe
The preacher this afternoon was Stephen Van Rhyn. Stephen is the lead elder of Jubilee Community Church in Cape Town, South Africa. He is married to Anna and has two young boys, Josh and Ben, and one daughter, Bethany.

Stephen directed us to Daniel 1 and read the entire chapter for us. He entitled his talk Prevailing Under Pressure. You can download the mp3 of his talk or listen to it here:

More posts from this conference can be found on my TOAM08 label page.

Stephen set the scene by explaining the terrible trauma experienced by the Jews in being exiled. What was worse, these events were not random. They had been determined by their God who had saved them, and had now judged them. Their sin was to make God surplus to requirements. They had been warned not to reject him. They had been wooed.

Galatians 6:7-8 warns us that God cannot be mocked. Persistent rebellion against God will not go unpunished. God is faithful to all his promises, including the promise to punish the disobedient. This might seem discouraging, but because of what it shows us, we can be encouraged.

1. GOD IS IN CONTROL
   
   

   He is sovereign. By verse 4, it is no longer Nebuchadnezzar who had carried them off into captivity; rather GOD claims that HE had done it. There is an historically correct perspective, but the destiny of the people of God is in the hands of God.
   
   We see in Daniel changing kings and an unchanging God. We meet superpower kings who come and go, but our God goes on forever! He is the one true King. Our God is the author of human history. In the midst of international dangers and everything else that is going on, we must hear that OUR GOD REIGNS.
   
   When we know that God reigns, we not only survive difficulties, we prevail. He is also sovereign over the very details of our lives. Verse 9—God causes an official to show favor. Verse 17—God gave knowledge and understanding. There is no area outside of God’s control.
   
   We all have challenges. We bring our own challenges and other people’s with us. But because God is in control and wants to give us hope and a future, we can be bold. Our confidence is that he is in charge. This is HIS world, and he cares about it. Jesus is ruling and reigning FOR his Church (Ephesians 1).
   
   God has an eternal purpose—to glorify his Son through his Church. He has a unique plan for each of us that fits in with that bigger plan. Our prayer meetings and our missions will be different if we really appreciate that God is in charge.
   
   

2. GOD IS A REDEEMER
   
   

   Even in the midst of punishment we see the mercy of God. “Young man, no defects, etc.”—that’s the list of requirements for the average Christian woman looking for a husband today!
   
   The key leaders were brought to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar, but God had a plan. God sent a group ahead so that there was grace to the people of God. They lived for God in the midst of the culture without compromise. Daniel is part of praying in the promise of God to send the people back.
   
   Before God disciplines a hard-hearted and rebellious people, he is already working on the solution! He sends a group on to be part of the redeeming purpose before he even punishes. God is more gracious than we are.
   
   For example, in Ruth, while Naomi is ranting against God, he is preparing her redemption. We serve a Redeemer. If we think our life is a mess, God can fix it.
   
   

3. GOD WANTS US IN THE WORLD, BUT NOT OF THE WORLD
   
   

   Daniel is deported and bombarded by this alien culture. Was he to avoid it? Was he to resist it? Was he to protest? Was he to assimilate?

   “It is comparatively easy to be faithful if we don't care about being contemporary. It is also easy to be contemporary if you don't care about being faithful. It is the search for the combination of truth and relevance which is exacting.”
   
   — John Stott

   How can we reach out without selling out? How can we be faithful and relevant?
   
   On external things, Daniel was flexible. He studied a foreign language. He changed his name. On the internal issue of his walk with God, he was inflexible.
   
   Daniel resolved not to defile himself. For Daniel, it wasn't really eating the food or wine, but rather because the food had been offered to idols. He demonstrated incredible courage. After all, you didn't want to offend Nebuchadnezzar!
   
   Daniel says it like it is. He doesn't want to defile himself. This is real moral integrity. It is theological integrity also (see verse 17). Daniel had a great intellect. He had great gifting and ability naturally. He was also anointed. But Daniel demonstrated integrity by not trusting his ability, or even the amplification of his ability. Daniel humbly embraced the gifts. It was not Daniel's brilliance that won the day, but rather the intervention of God. (Daniel 2:27-28) Daniel gave God the credit.
   
   He also demonstrated spiritual integrity by guarding his relationship with God with his life. He was in it for the long haul. In Daniel 6, they could not find anything to pin on him. They knew that if they banned prayer, Daniel would still pray. He wouldn't stop his communion with God.
   
   Daniel shows us a panoramic picture of a sovereign God. He remained faithful, committed to the purposes of God. Compromise is not inevitable. Not everyone has a price. Daniel did not cave in. People who pursue God will make a difference.
   
   

   “Those who honor me, I will honor.” 1 Samuel 2:30
   

   Eric Liddell was faithful to God, not only because he would not run on the Sabbath—he relocated to China to preach the gospel. During the war he was in a prisoner of war camp. Churchill arranged a prisoner exchange, but he decided to give his prisoner exchange to a pregnant woman who was in the camp. He died so someone else could live.
   
   You can live your life for God. You don't have to give in.

More posts from this conference can be found on my TOAM08 label page.

Begining tomorrow I will be live-blogging the Newfrontiers conference, Together On A Mission. (I will shorten this to TOAM.)

My posts will all be found on my TOAM08 label page.

You can download the mp3s of this week's talks by subscribing to the new Newfrontiers podcast, which will be an easy way for you to get access to the mp3s for free.

Newfrontiers is a family of reformed charismatic churches that began in England and now reaches into many nations. Last year we had 53 nations represented in Brighton; maybe this year it will be more. My live-blogging from TOAM07 and TOAM06 is also available.

The main visiting speaker this year is Mark Driscoll. I have a number of posts about him, including notes of sermons and an e-mail interview.

If you are interested in finding out more about Newfrontiers, the following interviews with leaders in Newfrontiers are helpful, some of which were carried out at New Word Alive. There is also a comprehensive Newfrontiers website.

TERRY VIRGO — Leader and founder of Newfrontiers

• Written report of an interview at Jubilee Church
  
  
• Video and transcript of an interview at New Word Alive 2008
  

STUART TOWNEND — Co-writer with Keith Getty of the hymn "In Christ Alone"

• Report and mp3 of an interview at New Word Alive 2008

JOHN LANFERMAN — Leader, Newfrontiers USA

• Transcript and mp3 of an interview at TOAM07

NATHAN FELLINGHAM — Songwriter and member of Phatfish

• Transcript and mp3 of an interview at New Word Alive 2008

This concludes my interview with Terry and Wendy Virgo. Today Terry provides insight into why he decided to work together with the New Word Alive conference. He also tells us how he chooses who to work with, and in particular, what led him to invite Mark Driscoll to the Brighton Conference, which will begin on July 8th. (I will be live-blogging the conference.) The video of this segment of the interview can be viewed here.

The two previous segments of this interview with Terry and Wendy can be read at these pages:

• Terry and Wendy Virgo at New Word Alive
  
  
• Terry and Wendy Virgo on Itinerant Ministry

*************************
Adrian
I can see from what you’re saying just how incredibly busy you must personally be overseeing all this. It just kind of brings me back to the fact that, yeah, you’re taking time out from your busy schedules to come here, so you must feel that this conference is pretty important and pretty crucial for, I guess, those outside of Newfrontiers. There aren’t that many Newfrontiers people here. Why would you come here? What’s so important about this specific conference this week?

Terry
I truly believe God wants to bring together a people who love Scripture, people who would flock to hear someone like Don Carson or John Piper, people who really regard Scripture highly.

Adrian
Very good. So, how do you determine, then, who you’re going to work with and who you’re not. Obviously you’re happy to work with these guys, and without going to names, I guess there must be others in UK that you’re not happy to work with. How do you determine that?

Terry
Most of my life has to be lived working out my commitment to Newfrontiers. That is where my loyalty lies. That’s where my duty lies. These are people who are expecting me to serve them, and I’m very happy to serve them. I’ve always felt that God said, “Now always keep a door open to the broader body of Christ. Don’t get shut in.” So for decades now, we’ve always had some involvement. So I get invitations and I have to choose here and there whether I will go. And this seemed a really brilliant place to come. I was honored to be invited, especially with a Carson and Piper here. So, yeah, I count it a huge privilege to be here. Also being a fairly substantial sizable conference, it means one can reach many people in a short time. After I spoke at the UCCF Forum, I had dozens, I think it would be true to say, letters from Christian Unions saying would I please come and speak at their CU. Well, I can’t do that. I can’t be driving all over England, speaking in CU meetings. But I can speak to a couple thousand students here in one week, so this is a really good economy of time, as well as an enjoyable thing to do.

Adrian
Okay. So I know, as an example, you’ve chosen to invite Mark Driscoll to the Brighton Conference this year. And in the past you’ve chosen various people who some people, I think, were surprised about. How do you go about choosing them, and specifically Mark. What made you choose Mark for this year’s Brighton Conference?

Terry
I’ve been listening to Mark Driscoll over the last year or so, I guess. I’m deeply impressed with his biblical stance. I think he’s an unusually powerful preacher. He is also bitingly relevant to our generation and aware of the culture in which we live. I think he’s very unusual. He’s not only fighting for the truth in some sort of static way of just defining the doctrine. He reminds me of a kind of latter day Spurgeon. He’s very clear on doctrine. He’s very evangelistic, building a great church, it sounds, helping to plant churches in Acts 29—again like Spurgeon, who helped to get churches started all around London. You hear about people in Australia who were reading his sermons a week or so after he preached them in London as they printed them and sent them round the world. And now Driscoll’s been downloaded all over the world. He’s an unusual guy, very robust, like Spurgeon was, out of step somewhat, even with his group. But I love what I hear. I’ve yet to meet him, but I love what I hear.

Adrian
Great. Excellent. Well, we’ll look forward to another big conference in July. It seems like there’s conference after conference, doesn’t it? It’s great, I guess, to have people gathering round God’s Word and learning stuff. I mean, that’s what I find anyway. I like conferences because you keep going . . .

Terry
I think I love the local church the most, and I know that would be true of you.

Adrian
Yes!

Terry
That’s where we work out our lives. That’s where we grow. We can’t build our lives on conferences. But we have been associated with some very big ones over the years and know the huge impact, so I certainly don’t despise conferences, but I know that in the end we work out our lives in God in the local church.

Adrian
H-m-m-m. Very good, very good. Well, thanks very much, both of you, for joining us. It’s been a real delight, as always, and I guess we’ll leave it with that. Thank you.

Terry
Thank you, Adrian.

This is the second installment of my interview with Terry and Wendy Virgo which began yesterday. That segment can be read here. The video version of this part of the interview can be seen here.


*************************
Adrian
Wendy, I want to ask you something now because it’s been awhile since you’ve had a chance to get a word in edgewise—I suspect you might be used to that! (Laughter) How has it been for you with your husband—obviously in the younger years, away a lot—leaving you at home with the kids—five I think?

Wendy
Yes.

Adrian
This is a very personal question, because my poor wife has the same problem.

Wendy
Oh, yes, she has five kids, too.

Adrian
And me traveling more for work, of course. But how did you cope being left alone, like she is right now, with five children and actually no car, I’m ashamed to admit.

Wendy
Oh, right. Well, when Terry was away, usually it was abroad, so I did have the use of the car, which was very helpful.

Adrian
Well, she usually does as well. This is, in fact, the first time since we went down to one car that we’ve been in this situation.

Wendy
Oh, right.

Adrian
Well, what about you? You were left at home; he was away . . .

Wendy
Well, our main focus is to build churches, which are really all one another in context, so we aren’t left alone, in fact. I was very much involved in church life and very beautifully loved and served by the church that I’ve been in now for twenty-five or six years. And, I didn’t actually feel that I was left alone. Obviously, I missed Terry a lot when he was away, but life was very busy and very full, and I never felt solitary, if you know what I mean.

Adrian
Yeah, yeah.

Wendy
And it has been great that as the children have grown up and now have their own homes (they’re all married now) that I can travel much more with Terry. I think it is a new season. Terry always used to travel with another guy or a group of guys because it was part of his training of them and part of introducing them to our values and helping them to see how an apostle works and how to work with an apostle, and developing a whole understanding of apostolic work. So, to take a group of guys with him was very helpful and instructive to all concerned. But now we have a number of men who would be in that position, like David Holden, Dave Devenish, and so on, who would also take groups of people with them, teams I would say. But as they have developed teamwork as well, they are now going off with their wives because their children are also grown up. So it’s becoming a bit of a pattern, I think.

Adrian
You’re very much involved, right in the thick of things, then?

Wendy
Probably not as much as say, some people like Dave Devenish, who goes into a place for several weeks or months at a time.

Adrian
And he’s taken his wife in those situations?

Wendy
Well, yes, that’s the thing. It’s quite a sacrifice, I think, at times. Tramping around places like Kazakhstan, places I can’t even pronounce. But, actually, Terry now will be going to Australia for three months at the end of this year, and that will be a new adventure for us.

Adrian
But you went to America for three years, didn’t you?

Wendy
Two years.

Adrian
Two years!

Wendy
Yes, yes. Actually that was a very positive time, too.

Adrian
Yes. So, I’m going to move back to Terry for a moment now because your wife just mentioned this funny “a” word—apostolic, apostle work. What about that? Because obviously there will be a lot of people who will, I guess, not really understand what that means for Newfrontiers.

Terry
Yes. I think it’s very important to say that we see different types of apostles, even in the Bible—Jesus the great apostle; the twelve, unique obviously, in the book of Revelation. But then you see in Ephesians 4—Jesus ascends on high and gives from his ascended position apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, teachers—so there’s that ongoing ministry. He says this will be until the Church comes to fullness of stature, to a mature man. So, in a sense, this is an ongoing thing that God will continually give these varied ministries. So one isn’t looking for more Bible writers. I think very often we from the reformed tradition have thought—well, an apostle writes the Scripture and that’s his role. But, really, I don’t think that stands up to close inspection. Several of the twelve did not write Scripture. Several of the people who wrote Scripture were not apostles, so it’s not really the point. The point is more church planters. Paul says as a wise master builder, “I lay the foundation”—he traveled, he planted churches. We feel that’s really what we’re talking about—modern day church planters. People who pioneer new ground, establish eldership, establish churches, and a fathering, ongoing care for those churches, strongly built on relationship, so that we’re friends in the ministry, as Paul referred to people. Even at the end of Romans, in chapter 16, there are all these personal greetings to people. So we’re building very relationally. We’re building new churches, planting churches. And now various teams have been raised up doing apostolic work. [Ed: See post Apostles Are Meant For Today for more information.]

Adrian
Right. So I guess in summary what you’re talking about, for those people who have different vocabularies, is someone who can church plant and help establish churches. That’s obviously exciting. I mean, there are 500 churches in Newfrontiers now, aren’t there? Is that right?

Terry
It’s probably nearer 600 now.

Adrian
Wow! Last time I checked it was 400, so the number must be going up very quickly.

Terry
Yes, it is. I’ve been in touch today, just a moment ago, with Edward Buria in Kenya, where there are now some 130 churches, which he has helped start, and we served with him and are very much in touch with him at the moment with the political tensions there. And then we have churches in South Africa, and indeed, around the world. So when you add them all up around the world, it’s untold. It’s difficult to keep up because Edward plants so many churches in Kenya. But we’re also planting churches in West Africa, South Africa, and into Asia, and as Wendy was saying, Australia now, New Zealand. So we’re planting churches very widely.

Adrian
You didn’t mention anything about America, though.

Terry
Yes, we are. I’ve been to the USA, and in fact, we’ll be at the . . .we’ve been in March to the Leaders Conference, and then we’re going again in June to our midwest family camp [ONEBLAZE] held in Warrensburg [Missouri] just outside Kansas City, and then in August we’re going across to the West, where we have growing involvement in Oregon, and in Idaho and Montana—a number of churches that are reaching toward us. Quite a lot of these pastors are coming over. I understand thirty pastors are coming from the West to our Brighton Conference, Together on a Mission, in July, where there will be about 5,000 gathered there. But just from that part of America, we have thirty coming. So I would think there might be something in the region of sixty coming over from the US to our conference in the summer. [Ed: For more details see Newfrontiers events in the USA.]

Continued in part 3 . . .

Today I am going to share the written transcript of the first segment of a three-part interview with Terry Virgo and his wife, Wendy at the New Word Alive Conference in North Wales. The video of that segment can be seen here. I have also previously interviewed Terry here.

In this segment I ask them to tell us a little bit about what they do, what is Newfrontiers, and how Terry came to speak at the New Word Alive Conference this year.


*************************
Adrian
Hi. I’m Adrian Warnock. I blog over at adrianwarnock.com and I’m part of the leadership team at Jubilee Church in London. I’m here at New Word Alive in North Wales, and am actually in Terry and Wendy Virgo’s chalet. Terry and Wendy very kindly agreed to join us for a short interview about the conference and whatever else we decide to talk about, I guess. So, thanks for joining us, Terry and Wendy.

Terry
Thanks, Adrian. Good to see you.

Adrian
Yeah. It’s great that you were able to find some time to chat with us, and to just be here at this conference. I just wonder, how have you found the conference so far?

Terry
Well, we’ve really enjoyed the opportunity for fellowship with a number of people we wouldn’t normally see. First of all, I’ve never met Don Carson, and it’s been magnificent to listen to him, and John Piper—inspiring again. It’s good to make new friends—people whose names I’ve known, like Wallace Benn. This is the first time I’ve got to meet him. It’s been an excellent time. Thank you.

Adrian
Good, thanks. And what about you, Wendy?

Wendy
Yes. I wasn’t quite sure what I was coming to, but I was relieved to find it is set in an absolutely beautiful location. And also I have so enjoyed especially Don Carson’s and John Piper’s messages. I’ve really been blown away by their passionate delivery of theology.

Adrian
Yeah, it’s been great, hasn’t it? So, Terry, there will be a few people watching this [and reading it] who perhaps won't know who you are. I mean, I find that amazing; you probably don’t find that amazing. But people do watch this in the States, and also some other places. I wonder if you could, in your own words really, talk a little bit about what it is you do with your life when you’re not in a chalet in Wales.

Terry
Yes, which is pretty rare! I’m based in Brighton on the south coast of England, and I’m an elder of a church there called Church of Christ the King. From there, I travel out with Newfrontiers, which is a group of churches that works in about 40 nations now. In the UK we have about 220 churches, and then globally we’re pressing on towards 600 churches. So I travel a lot. Later this month we’ll be in Russia at a pastors and wives conference, and then we’ll be in the States in May and June, and we’ll be in France with our pastors and wives there from the Newfrontiers churches. So we travel quite a lot.

Adrian
You say “we.” Is that the two of you, or just you, or sometimes a mixture of both?

Terry
We have five children who are all now married and have left home. And we often travel together now.

Adrian
Oh, that's the "we."

Wendy
Yes.

Adrian
So what does Wendy get up to, then, when she’s not holding your bags? Well, I hope he carries your bags Wendy!

Wendy
Yes, traveling does take up a lot of our time, but when I’m at home I love to be involved in things like Alpha Courses, although increasingly I’m not able to do that. But I do write for various Bible notes such as TWR and Day By Day, the Bible Reading Fellowship, Scripture Union obviously for as well. I speak at ladies’ days around the country, and I’m also engaged in writing a book at the moment.

Adrian
That’s very interesting. Can you tell us a little bit more about that? Or are you sworn to secrecy on that?

Wendy
Well, yes, perhaps it is a little bit premature, but it’s about the effect that women can have in a Church for good or bad.

Adrian
Very good. That sounds really interesting. I look forward to reading that, no doubt, sometime in the future. Now you’re going to have to finish it as you’ve said it online.

Wendy
I know.

Adrian
(Laughing) There you go! So, obviously both of you are incredibly busy, traveling an awful lot, all around the place, looking after all these churches. What made you decide to accept the invitation to come here? I know you’ve been involved with UCCF for quite awhile as well, haven’t you? Is it some kind of advisory board you’re on with them, or . . .

Terry
Yes. The invitation came from UCCF. I’ve made a very good friend in Richard Cunningham. He’s a fine guy. I like him. He asked me to be involved with UCCF, and then having agreed to that, I was then invited to speak at their Leaders Forum a year or two back, and had a very happy time working through Romans and then leading Bible studies. And I’ve enjoyed the fellowship. I’m so glad that they have embraced us. We come from a charismatic perspective. Our church life is charismatic. UCCF has not been famously charismatic, but they’re making a statement of openness, and I’ve been received very warmly, both in their Forum, which I’m due to speak at again next year (2009), and then here as well. And so it’s an interesting coming together of people who love Scripture, love doctrine, love the truth of God. And it’s great to have Stuart Townend here, and Phatfish, who come from my home church. We're very proud of them. Stuart’s written some magnificant songs, as have Phatfish, and I know they are welcomed around the world. It’s great to be together with them here as well. So we’ve enjoyed that.

Adrian
Yeah, and we’re singing the same songs as well, aren’t we? It’s interesting. Those divisions, at least in terms of songs, just don’t seem to be there anymore, really, you know?

Terry
I was fascinated when I was invited to speak at the Keswick Convention, probably three years ago now, and again I felt as the worship took place before I spoke, I think three-quarters of the songs we sang had been written by people in my home church. I felt remarkably . . .

Adrian
What is it about the sea water down there? You guys seem to keep producing singers, don’t you?

Terry
Yes, we have some great songwriters . . .

Adrian
I guess that church is a sort of resource church, really, isn’t it? I guess that would be one way of describing it in terms of—you have all kinds of different people going out and serving in various different way from there, haven’t you?

Terry
I think David Fellingham originally was with us from the beginning when we started our church. We started with 38 people back in about 1980, and David joined us quite early on with tremendous musical skills and devotion to God. He started writing songs that became very famous. And then others joined us like Stuart Townend, Paul Oakley, then his other son, Nathan Fellingham, came through writing songs. Kate Simmonds. More recently Simon Brading. In fact, we’re starting a worship school again this coming autumn, and we trust people will want to book in and come for the monthly program that will take place through this coming year.

Adrian
That’s great. So I mean, coming here, I guess we’re joining hands with people who perhaps years ago we'd never have imagined we'd be joining hands with. I mean, would that be a fair way of describing it?

Terry
Yes, it’s true. For me, when I was first converted from a completely non-Christian background, my sister had joined All Souls Langham Place, and I first responded to the gospel publically there. So I met John Stott on that day. So my roots go back to an evangelical context. And while I was at college, I listened to Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones. So one feels so at home with these truths. Then I had an experience of the Holy Spirit, opening up the gifts of the Spirit in our church life. Which means we're certainly not cessationists. We believe in the presence and the power of God. We’ve never abandoned these great evangelical truths which we greatly love and have always preached during this time of enjoying the presence of the Spirit as well—seeing people being healed, and prophecies, and things of that order. So that we can find a very happy combination of those things.

Adrian
Yeah, I think that people are sort of almost feeling that this is a new thing—this combination of reformed and charismatic. I guess it’s newly prominent. It’s something that’s been around, I guess what you’re saying, all along. Is that right?

Terry
Well, I think I’ve always held that position going back many years. Joel Edwards, who has been the Evangelical Alliance leader for some years, said he felt that we at Newfrontiers in England were fairly unique for being famously charismatic and famously reformed theologically. He thought we were unusual. But we’re friends right across the board, and I’m very grateful for that.

Adrian
Good. Thanks.

Continued in part 2 . . .

As we drew to the close of the first segment of my interview with John Lanferman yesterday we began to speak about reformed charismatic churches. Today I begin by asking him if he believes there is a hunger for such churches in the USA. You can also download the audio of this interview.

*************************

Adrian
Yeah, that’s so important, isn’t it? So as you look out over the nation, do you feel that there is a hunger in the US for these kind of churches, a desire to see them?

John
Absolutely. I think especially an emerging generation, the 20’s and 30’s generation, pretty much in the US left the church. But we’re seeing a lot of these people coming back into the church. In our own church, that would be the largest demographic. And these are young people who really have a value of the foundations of the past, historical Christian faith would be important to them, but also a mixture of what the culture has created—a desire to experience something in the Spirit. They’re not afraid of that. So you have this desire to be rooted in something that’s stable—historical Christian faith—but at the same time, wanting to experience something of God in the Spirit. And are not afraid of spiritual manifestations; in fact, they’re hungry for that. Hungry to experience the very real presence of God for themselves in a very tangible way.

Adrian
Yeah. It’s interesting because a lot of people are talking about that kind of resurgence of reformed faith in the US in the 20’s and 30’s [age group]. It’s interesting to hear you saying that a lot of those guys are also looking for something quite experiential.

John
Absolutely.

Adrian
I guess people like John Piper are probably a major part of that, aren’t they? Because the way he preaches—it’s all about knowing God, and [having] a kind of relationship with God, and valuing God, rather than just purely as an intellectual thing.

John
Yes, and he’s taken some fairly strong stands. He actually is not a cessationist. He actually does believe . . .

Adrian
Most people are really surprised when they hear that. What? John Piper is not a cessationist? You’re kidding!

John
That’s true. And he has huge influence in our nation among the evangelical community. I think his welcoming in of people like C. J. Mahaney, and even embracing guys like Mark Driscoll . . .

Adrian
Yes!

John
. . . and just to see what’s happening there encourages me quite a great deal.

One of the negative things that’s happening in the US as well—you have the emerging church. On one end of it you have a very orthodox guy like Mark Driscoll, and a bit colorful as well. (Adrian laughing) While on the other end you have people who have a greater degree of relevancy, so doctrine and theology is kind of fluid, and they want to adapt that to culture, and so that leads to heresy. And that’s a frightening thing. But there’s a wing of that emerging church that is very much moving in that direction as well, as you probably well know. That’s a frightening thing in the US because there’s quite a large following of that group as well.

Adrian
That’s right. And I think some of those historic doctrines are being questioned . . .

John
They are!

Adrian
. . . in a way that you’d be surprised at. But that’s not unique to the US either. As you know, we’ve had some issues over here with that, particularly with regard to the atonement and things like that. I mean, is the atonement such a big issue in the US as it is over here in the UK, would you say?

John
It’s not with mainline evangelical groups, but I think with the emerging church, the people who are on one side of that very much—that’s one of the questions. And even the desire to be culturally relevant and accepting of alternative life styles has led people to make an adjustment as to how they approach that. And they won’t make categorical statements any more. So they’re standing on sand rather than the solid rock of the Book. So I think that’s a concern as well. These guys are fairly media savvy, and it’s a subtle thing . . . to find a way into churches.

Adrian
I think that’ right. With the advent of the media and the Internet, well, I know this only two well. It’s possible for people to hit above their weight. I mean, Here am I — just some guy in a church in London whose blog is read all around the world. And I think that happening with a lot of people, and you can have influence, either for good or not good, far above, actually, what you are accomplishing on the ground in that sense. Or over what you feel you should have influence.

John
Yes, absolutely, that’s true.

Adrian
I think it is a bit concerning, isn’t it? How some people are causing us to drift away from truth.

John
The thing that’s concerning about it is that—not [only] are they gifted and charismatic, but in actuality, there’s the element of Christianity about them. So you’re dealing with something different than people who are totally secular. So it’s a subtle thing. A lot of people are not very scripturally astute. It’s easy to be pulled along in that train.

Adrian
Don’t you think that it’s quite interesting when you look [at it] historically? A lot of these ideas have been tried before, haven’t they?

John
Yes, they have. And the thing is, they always end up on a dead-end street. They don’t have a long cycle. They come around, but ultimately God is very protective of his Church. He is very zealous for it. And the church that’s rooted in biblical value and persuasion continues on. I’m very encouraged in America about the uptick in church planting. I don’t know if you want to talk about that or not . . .

Adrian
Yeah, church planting is great, yeah.

John
In the US, over the last two decades, there has been a deterioration in people who are committed to regular church attendance. It’s averaged a 10 per cent decline in each of the last ten years—so 20 per cent less are now involved in church activities, or even actually community activities, than before. But now, groups like Acts 29, and on a much, much smaller scale, but I like to say, Sovereign Grace, and Newfrontiers, and various other church planting movements, Global Net—these groups that are coming to the forefront planting churches, training people, are based on orthodox Christian faith with a real sense of mission. So missional churches are emerging among us, and many of them are growing, seeing lots of people saved. So I actually—while we have these rather alarming trends, I see much to be very excited about in the US.

Adrian
Yes, oh yes. Just for the sake of those out there—I know some people sitting out there are thinking, “What exactly is a missional church, John?” How would you define that?

John
A church that understands that it exists for the express purpose of carrying the gospel to the next door neighbor, to the person in the next block, to the person in the next city, state, and nation, and they exist for the purpose of being carriers of the gospel. So they are involved, not only in proclamation, but they are involved in changing the whole culture of a community. They would be people who would be involved in cross-cultural evangelism. They would be people who would be involved in changing the social justice—be involved in that ministry to the poor—so they have a desire to see the whole community that they are involved with, the towns they are involved with, changed and made into a kingdom community. It’s people who understand, “We do not exist for ourselves, but we exist for them.” So the way we spend our money. the way we staff our churches, the way our churches feel, the way they operate, have that outward appeal. And it’s a God-centered approach to humanity rather than an inward, “What about me and my needs?” It’s a man-centered approach.

Adrian
That’s very good. So that’s really very much what’s on your heart as you go across the nation, isn’t it? I guess that’s what you’re saying—to see those kinds of churches multiplied.

John
Absolutely—if we can get outstanding churches in each of these 100 large cities, and out from that, begin to reproduce ourselves. Because I’m fanatical on reproducing churches. We must not just plant churches, but we [want to] see churches that view themselves as reproducing churches, multiply themselves, raise up leaders, give themselves away, spread out in the communities and the nations beyond.

Adrian
It’s just so exciting to see what God is doing in a nation, but also what he’s doing around the world, and to be able to link up with that. I guess we’re back to the conference in a way. Because that’s what this is all about, isn’t it? Together on a Mission.

John
Yes, it is. And I think what’s interesting is how we help each other. The different nations, different men, bring different things into the pool. I’m receiving from others. I’m receiving from my friends in Africa, or my friends in India, and so it’s even the in-between times when we’re kind of sharing ideas back and forth and getting on board how we can assist one another. Because it’s just not about our own little patch. It’s us owning the world together. It’s us saying, “We want to see the gospel of the kingdom of Jesus Christ grow and expand to all the nations of the world. So, I have just as much a vital interest in what’s happening in Africa, or what’s happening in Europe, as I would even in our own place. Because we have to own the whole vision of God. I do know that I have a particular responsibility for a sphere.

Adrian
Yeah.

John
But God has called us to work together. I think that’s the joy of what’s happening here in this conference, and who we are in Newfrontiers as well.

Adrian
Yeah. And I guess when we gather together like this, significant words can come as well, that shape us really.

John
It’s true. I think it’s in the worship that God is speaking to us. It’s in the preaching as well. But also in prophetic words that come to us. And you can just see the impact that’s happening across the room . . .

Adrian
Yes!

John
. . . guys coming together and buzzing about this, and what God is saying. So it’s quite helpful actually.

Adrian
If my readers are sitting there in America somewhere thinking, “You know what?” This all sounds great. I’d love to be in a church like that.” How would they find out more?

John
Well, they can come to our website, of course. Just type into the search engine Newfrontiers USA, and there, of course, they can find us, and where our churches are located. Of course, I would welcome any contact there in St. Louis where we are based.

Adrian
Excellent. Do you run any conferences, or anything like that, there in the USA?

John
Yes, we do. We have an annual Leadership Conference that’s hosted by us there in St. Louis. But we have also moved out regionally. Originally we were just a small cluster of churches in Missouri, but now we have established cluster churches in New England, and we’ve moved into the Pacific Northwest, and now we’ve moved into the Southeast as well. So we’ve established regional events because we are a family of churches, just not a fraternity of leaders. So churches come together there for envisioning, and leadership events happen, as well as 20’s conferences, and events for teenagers. Just this next week, we’re gathering several hundred teenagers, not just to go to a camp and somehow be refreshed and go back all enthusiastic for a couple of weeks, but actually to be involved in a mission and social action. We’re going to go out into the streets. We’re going to get with children in the neighborhoods. We’re going to begin to work into that community. So we have lots of events by which we’re bringing people together. There’s something that can happen when a group of churches come together that simply cannot happen with a church on its own. And there is just a combined strength of coming together around the singleness of vision and purpose that not only helps with what we do together, but actually helps when people go back to their own churches. They’ve caught something, see? And they take it back with them. So we have several events like that. And men’s conferences and ladies conferences that are happening throughout the nation. So immediately when I go back, we will have a One Blaze event, which is the teen event, in St. Louis. And from there, I’ll leave the next week and go up to New England, and we’ll have a big family camp out there where we gather the churches. We bring in international speakers, as well as myself, and we’re envisioned.

Adrian
Great. Sounds great. It’s just so exciting to hear about what God’s doing over there in the States. Thank you so much for joining us, John. Is there anything else that you’d like to share with my readers before we close?

John
I’m very much enthused about what God is going to be doing in the US, and what he is doing now. I’m thrilled when I see the moving of his Spirit in more prononced ways, as well as the value of the Word. I’m particularly encouraged about missional churches that are sprining up all across our nation. So, I wouldn’t want to end here just with some of the other things we’ve talked about—alarming trends, etc. I’d like to says that I’m actually more encouraged today than I’ve ever been in my life in regard to what God’s doing in raising up his Church in the US.

Adrian
Excellent! Praise God for that. We wish you all the success in the future, John, and I look forward to hearing more about what goes on in the years to come when you’ve reached those 100 cities.

John
Yes, thank you, Adrian.

Adrian

Praise God. Thank you.

Next week the main Newfrontiers International conference of the year starts. To whet your appetite, I thought I'd share the transcript of an interview I did at Together On A Mission 2007 with John Lanferman. The audio for this interview is also available here.

John oversees a team of leaders who serve the churches in the Newfrontiers—USA family. His primary focus is leadership training, church planting, and supporting churches in the States. John and his wife, Linda, are a part of Jubilee Church in St. Louis, Missouri. His blog is at http://johnlanferman.blogspot.com/.

If you can't make it to this year's TOAM conference, I will once again be live-blogging it right here. It's still not too late to arrange to listen to one of Mark Driscoll's other speaking engagements in the UK.


*************************
Adrian
Hi everyone. This is Adrian Warnock here again. I’m here at Together on a Mission, together with John Lanferman. John leads the work of Newfrontiers in the USA. I would like to ask him a little bit about the conference, and also his work overseas, because I’m aware that a lot of you are probably thinking, “Well, this Newfrontiers thing—it’s all well and good because it’s over in the UK” — where things are perhaps a little bit different. So, John, first of all, how are you enjoying the conference?

John
I think it’s magnificent. The preaching has been outstanding. The worship is amazing. God’s presence is here. He is speaking personally to people. He’s speaking to us as a family of churches as well. It’s wonderful to welcome 53 different nations into this setting.

Adrian
Yes, I think it’s so important to underline that, isn’t it, because people probably think, “Oh, it’s just a British thing,” when really it’s almost like a world conference, isn’t it?

John
Absolutely, it is. And just to make connection with people and find out what’s happening in their nations, and to see that we’re really on the same page as it relates to the kingdom of God. There’s not really a national distinction there when it comes to that.

Adrian
Yeah, I know. It’s been great. Some of the preachers have come from South Africa and . . .

John
Absolutely.

Adrian
You’ve got guys from Africa, other parts, all over, haven’t we here?

John
Yes, it’s wonderful.

Adrian
I guess really as well, this conference is perhaps a little bit different to some other conferences, isn’t it, in terms of the family feel. I don’t know how easily we can get that across to people who are at home reading the blog.

John
I think that’s the interesting thing. When you come together and you see people, and some of the people, of course, we know as well. But even in meeting new people, there’s a sense of community that seems to be automatic, and it’s just great to see people mixing it up, enjoying each other.

Adrian
Yeah, I think that’s right, because that doesn’t happen everywhere we go in conferences, does it?

John
No, I know some conferences that you may visit, and some I’ve visited in the US — I mean, you arrive. If you don’t know anyone or if you have a friend or two, you’re really not connected. There’s not a sense of togetherness on the mission . . .

Adrian
Yeah . . .

John
. . . and you break off, you go to lunch, or you go to your hotel room. There’s a sense of — you’re there to pick up information primarily and download information that maybe you can employ in your own situation.

Adrian
Yeah.

John
But here it’s a totally different feel.

Adrian
That’s right. And there’s all these kind of little mini-meetings going on in all the breaks, isn’t there? I mean, the little breaks sort of get eaten up, don’t they?

John
All the time.

Adrian
(Laughing). And we’re sitting here and we’ve got what? I don’t know—another hour or so?—before the next session. And you squeeze in a meeting, don’t you?

John
That’s right, you do.

Adrian
But it’s good fun.

John
So it’s a pleasure, I think, as well, the in-between meeting times to connect relationally, talk to each other, find out what’s going on. It’s all part of the whole package.

Adrian
Yeah, exactly. John, I particularly wanted to chat with you because you head up the work of Newfrontiers in the USA, and so many of my readers are from that nation. So, are there many other Americans here at the conference?

John
Yes, there are several actually. We have four of our own local elders from St. Louis who are here, and some of our other staff members as well. But besides that, across the nation, we have representatives who lead churches that are here with us.

Adrian
So are there many Newfrontiers churches in the US?

John
Actually, there’s not at the time. We now have 23 churches in ten different states, but it was just a few years ago, like ten years ago, we had 7 churches in one state . . .

Adrian
Right.

John
. . . so these were churches that already had a history. Terry [Virgo] came over and spent a couple of years and left. It was in that setting, then, that we began to actually formulate who we were together, come together with a real sense of mission. We have churches that have a history, and we’ve been drawn together around Terry, and around the mission there, but obviously there are residual issues, so I think in the first few years there was a need for us to really come together to construct that all through, which we did, of course, and now we’re planting churches all across the nation.

Adrian
Okay, excellent. How do you decide where to go and plant a church?

John
I have, on my laptop, 100 cities, and I won’t be content until the top 100 cities in the U.S.—87 per cent of the nation’s population reside in these cities—so, one by one, we want to tick off these cities. When Newfrontiers started in the US, we were primarily a rural movement. We didn’t have any churches in any major cities. So, first of all, to come together around a mission and then begin to train leaders and set up training programs, to begin to envision people, and then see people move from the rural settings—although we’re very, very grateful; we’re still planting the rural settings—begin to make that big step into city centers. Kansas City was our first church plant; St. Louis (the one I led) was our second plant, and now we are in seven major cities. We’re in Seattle-Tacoma. We’re in Boston. We’re in Chicago. We’re in Nashville. We’re in Atlanta. We’re planting churches one by one into these major city centers, and we want these churches to become reproducing centers, so out from them churches are planted. So we have a fairly ambitious vision.

Adrian
Yeah, it sounds like it. So, what is it about a Newfrontiers church that is, say, different to other churches in the grand? Because I know some people might say, “Well, why bother planting churches? Surely we should just strengthen the ones that are there already.”

John
I think the thing that really draws us together is our sense of mission. Now there are other things, of course, that draw us together. Our very real value of Word and Spirit. We’re an interesting group because, in the US, you have evangelicals and people from various denominational persuasions. You have people who are charismatics. We’re a bit different because we are evangelical in that we are rooted in historic Christian faith. Most of our people would have a reformed theological perception. But we have a charismatic experience. And that’s quite unusual in the US. I think it sets us a bit apart from most other groups—not that there aren’t others that way—but it makes us different, I think, from what you would normally find in the US.

Adrian
Yeah. I sometimes have people writing to me, saying, “Is there a church like that in this place or in that place?” And I often wonder what other groups are there out there that are similar to Newfrontiers in some way. Are there other groups?

John
I would say Sovereign Grace would be similar to us. We’ve had good fellowship with that group. But there’s an interesting phenomenon that’s happening as well because in mainline evangelical circles, people that would have name recognition—guys like John Piper or Mark Driscoll—are, of course, well established in orthodox faith, but as well, are very open to and accepting and believing in certain charismatic expressions. So, it’s an interesting move that’s happening in the US in that regard.

Adrian
Yeah. So there’s a kind of—like what you’re saying—a coming together of the Word and the Spirit in a way.

John
I believe that’s exactly true. We do have other things. It’s a big country. The Christian television market, religious television market, and radio waves are fairly dominated by charismatics that would have a very experiential and often times a man-centered approach . . .

Adrian
Right.

John
. . . rather than a God-centered approach, which of course, is not helpful to be labeled in that particular camp because our root is indeed orthodox evangelical Christianity with a charismatic experience and expression.

Continued in part 2 . . .

I recently posted what I trust will be a series which will be about sermons that have changed my life. It is way too early for me to claim that this past Sunday's talk by my pastor and dear friend, Tope Koleoso, will be one of those. But I could do a lot worse than allow myself to be shaped by a talk like this. I have previously shared a list of talks Tope has given that are available online, but much as I loved those talks, I believe this may be the best sermon I have ever heard him preach.

I don't want to give too much away because I want to encourage you to listen to this talk. He weaved such well-remembered verses as "Go into all the world ...", "I am not ashamed of the gospel ..." "How will they hear ..." and "The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few ..." into a compelling tapestry that felt fresh and deeply impacting without condemning. He acknowledged that it IS easier to mix with people who are in your own "tribe"— your Judea as it were.

He challenged us that if we are not going beyond that, if all our friends are still very similar to us, we haven't yet allowed the gospel to have its full impact on us. He laid down the challenge that the gospel has two calls to it. There is a call to come, to receive from God. But then there is a call to go. In that going we are called to worship God and to be a witness. He spoke of our mission to reach the world one person at a time. He also spoke of our message. He explained that our message was nothing more complicated than a person—Jesus. We are to teach his cross, his resurrection, the call to repentance, and a promise of forgiveness. Still, today some demand signs and wonders, and others clever reasoning and wisdom, but we preach Jesus and him crucified. Tope also spoke of our methods and our motivation of love. My favorite line in the whole talk was, "If you want Jesus to go with you, go and make disciples."

I was profoundly moved by this talk. What was also exciting is that, once again this Sunday, a number of people made a response to the gospel. We are in the middle of a prolonged season where we have been seeing such responses on a weekly basis. Please pray for us that such things continue, and that as a church this sermon may indeed help to turn our focus outward and that we will see many more genuinely saved. The message is available to download or listen to here:

If you are an avid C. J. Mahaney listener, you may well have heard of a series of talks he did many years ago on people in the Bible who God killed. In which case, I've got a real treat in store for you! But first, let me set the context.

I would like to share with you a few sermons over the coming weeks or months that have impacted me so much that I still remember them. I am convinced that the gentle "drip drip" effect of being continually exposed to good teaching over many years is as important as the moments of great impact and decision. But, by the nature of things, we don't remember those sermons!

Some messages do consciously shape us, however, creating a moment of transaction between us and God. Often we remember how we felt when we heard them as if it were yesterday, even years afterwards. This is one such talk. I would love to hear from others about sermons they remember as having transformed them in a similar way.

To set the scene, I was still a young boy. I had somehow persuaded my parents to let me go into the adults' meeting in a tent at Downs Bible Week, an early Newfrontiers conference.

Mahaney was a phenomenon even back then. He was funny, engaging, easy to understand, and truly passionate. He was speaking about the holiness of God, and by honing in on the people God killed, certainly got my attention. This was a side of God I hadn't really given much attention to.

This talk was very well received. In fact, you could have cut the air with a knife that night because of the sense of the presence of God in the room. It was one of the very few times in my life when I caught something of the smell of revival. That night I experienced for the first time a sense of the weighty presence of God in all his holiness that both attracted and terrified me. I knew then that this was what a revival would feel like. If I had known how seldom I would experience the same sensation in the ensuing years, I would not have wanted to leave that tent. Sometimes today I cry out to God that he would reveal himself in such a way again. When we pray for revival, I'm not entirely sure we know what we are praying for.

Judging by the heavy sense of conviction in the room, many of us were totally undone that night. I know that for me, I would never be able to treat God as flippantly or irreverently again. That night kindled in me a healthy respect for God which has never left me. The Bible both commands us to fear God, and then tells us not to be afraid of him. Or, as Newton puts it:

'Twas grace that taught my heart to fear,
and grace my fears relieved.
One of my most enduring memories of that evening all those years ago was speaking to a member of our church who, with eyes brimming with tears, said that they felt they had just begun their Christian life all over again—if that were possible. There were many who felt the same way, wondering if they had ever been a Christian up until that point.

The sermon seemed as though it was lost to the sands of time. But in response to my appeal for old sermons, I like to imagine that someone was rummaging through their attic and finding an old tape. As a result, here it is! I think it's a VERY important talk and am glad I have been able to (with permission) unleash it on the world once again. You can download it here or listen online using the embedded player:



Here are some extracts from the talk—the first was in the context of talking about whether God's punishment of Adam's sin was excessive.

"I don't in any way believe that that was too harsh. He was warned. God made every provision ... When you sin, you forfeit any claim you had to human existence, because the purpose of his life and Eve's life, and our lives was to represent the holiness of God. I don't believe it's unjust for God to take away the gift of life that he gave freely if it wasn't used for the purpose for which he gave it. Because when we sin, what we are saying is—we are not just making a mistake—we are saying no to God's law; we are saying your law is not good; we're saying—God, your law does not cut it, I'm not under your authority; my judgment is superior to yours; I'm defying and opposing you, who in reality I owe everything to."

"The amazing thing is not that God has judged people in the Bible; it is that God has not judged everybody."

"I have seen some people teach on holiness and they almost seemed happy some people were going to hell."

"God does not delight in sending people to hell ... His judgment is not like our temper that flares up in an instant."

"As soon as that apple hit Adam's lips and Eve's lips, they should have been wasted immediately, but God was merciful . . . justice was delayed so that grace might enter history."

"The issue is not why does God punish sin, but why does he permit the ongoing rebellion of man?"

There was also an endearing moment, when in the midst of some hilarious Mahaney jokes, he turned to my mentor, Henry Tyler, who was on the stage beside him and said, "Henry, I don't think Martyn Lloyd-Jones would have approved of this exegesis, do you?" It was a funny and intimate moment that nicely offset the conviction and passion of much of the sermon. While I am not sure that Lloyd-Jones would have approved of the humor, I like to think he would definitely have approved of the life-transforming effect on one young boy, and I suspect many others sitting in that circus top tent on a racecourse at Plumsted that evening.

Do you remember this sermon or one of Mahaney's other ones on God killing people? What impact did it have on you?

********

This talk is reproduced with the permission of Newfrontiers. Visit their website for further free downloads from a variety of Newfrontiers events.

John Kpikpi is a friend of mine. I know and trust him. I also know and trust Terry who reported the following remarkable text message on his blog. A truly remarkable event.

On Thursday night (29th May 2008) I was watching the Florida outpouring of God TV. It went on till our time 12.30 a.m. Towards the end there were testimonies of the 15th person raised from the dead – one of which was reported by cell phone from Kenya!

I was about to go to bed when a lady in our church phoned to say that her husband had stopped speaking and stopped responding to her, and asked me to come.

It was rather dire when I got there; we could not detect any breathing movements at all, and his body felt very cold to the touch. There was no pulse and his limbs were limp. Not being a medic I can’t claim he was dead but there was no evidence of life.

His three children were crying in another room while I set out to pray for him with his wife, obviously filled with faith from my time watching the TV.

After praying for a while I thought I noticed a slight movement below the thorax. I wondered whether my eyes were playing tricks on me so I rested my palm gently over the area – and felt it move. I asked his wife to feel the same place but she said she couldn’t feel anything. We continued to pray and I saw his collar bone move up and down!

We pressed on and then I could hear breathing noises. Then he began to snore and at this time his wife called him and he responded with a grunt! I felt it was time for me to leave and I went in and assured the children that their Dad was OK.

Was he raised from the dead? Well, I think if I hadn’t gone in with impartation from the Florida outpouring we would all have been wailing on Sunday; rather he came to stand with his wife before the church as a great testimony.

Hallelujah! I am hungry for more of this present outpouring.

John Kpikpi
2nd June 2008

UPDATE
The written transcript of the third part of the interview is now available. It can be read here.

Yesterday I continued my interview with Terry and Wendy Virgo. Wendy provided some insights into her life as Terry's wife and her travels with him. Terry defined what he means by "modern day apostles."

In this segment, Terry speaks more about why he decided to work together with the New Word Alive conference. He states, "I truly believe God wants to bring together people who love Scripture and those who love life in the Holy Spirit." We also talked about how he chooses who to work with, and in particular what led him to invite Mark Driscoll to this year's Brighton conference.

UPDATE
The written transcript of this segment of my interview is now available to read here.

Yesterday I began an interview with Terry and Wendy Virgo. We talked a little about what they do and how Terry came to speak at New Word Alive.

Wendy begins this section of our interview talking about sharing in Terry's travels, and what it was like to be left behind with five children. Terry also explains briefly what he means by modern day apostles.



Continued in part 3 . . .

UPDATE
The written transcript of this interview is now available. It can be read here.

Today I share the first of a three-part interview with Terry and Wendy Virgo, recorded at New Word Alive. Terry and Wendy kindly invited me into their chalet as I was a bit cold from speaking with Don Carson outside.

In this segment we talked about what exactly they both do, what is Newfrontiers, and a bit about the relationships that led to Terry speaking at New Word Alive. I have previously interviewed Terry here.



Continued in part 2 . . .

Last week Terry shared a challenging quote about prayer. This kind of prayer that will NOT let God go, and will NOT settle for the status quo goes a long way to explaining the secret of Newfrontiers.

It's a good place to start as we commence a video interview with Terry this week. Perhaps we should take note how important prayer is to both Terry and the other two people I interviewed on video at New Word Alive - Don Carson and John Piper.

Here is the quote:

"Lose the importunity of prayer … lose the real conflict of will and will, lose the habit of wrestling and the hope of prevailing with God, make it mere walking with God in friendly talk; and precious as that is, yet you tend to lose the reality of prayer at last." (P. T. Forsyth).

Most of you will already know this, but Mark Driscoll is coming to the UK this July. I hope that as many of my readers as possible will be able to attend at least one of these events. I have been fortunate enough to interview Mark Driscoll by e-mail, and to have listened to him live, and am sure you will not be disappointed if you come.

Monday through Friday July 8-11
Newfrontiers Conference in Brighton
Driscoll will be preaching a number of sessions to the whole conference, and will also run a seminar series for elders. Join thousands of Christian leaders and those in their 20’s for vibrant worship and great preaching. Booking required.

Friday July 11
“Mark Driscoll Unleashed” at St James Clerkenwell, London
Hear Driscoll near Kings Cross at 8 PM. Booking not required.

Saturday July 12
Dwell Conference, London
An Acts 29 “Boot Camp” in miniature from 9:30 AM to 4:45 PM in central London. Booking required.

Sunday July 13
Mark Driscoll Preaching at Jubilee Church, London
10 AM — Hear Driscoll preach in a growing multicultural church in North London that happens to be my regular church. Join us at Enfield Cineworld near Enfield Town Overground Station, on the corner of the A10 and Southbury Road.

6:30 PM — Hear Driscoll back in Brighton at the Church of Christ the King.

I had the pleasure of interviewing Stuart Townend today. Stuart is based in Church of Christ the King, a Newfrontiers church in Brighton, UK, which is also home to Phatfish, Paul Oakley, and Terry Virgo.

Here is an abridged and adapted version of that interview. The entire interview can be accessed at the end of this post and is well worth listening to in its entirety. Stuart was a joy to interview and clearly passionate about worship and doctrine.

Adrian
How are you finding the conference?

Stuart
It's great, so far. There has been a good response. The standard of teaching has been world-class.

Adrian
Do tell us a bit more about your song, In Christ Alone.

Stuart
It was the first song Keith Getty and I wrote together. Keith is a fantastic melody writer. It was his music that inspired me to take my lyric writing seriously and convey the truths of the Scriptures in a poetic way to help people retain the truth. I have been humbled to see how it has been used. I get more comments on that song than all the rest put together. It was a timely song, written around the time 9-11 shook our foundations. To be able to sing at that time “No scheme of man can pluck me from his hand” was important.

Adrian
What makes a worship song good?

Stuart
Having focused on the cross of Christ, it’s important to ask, “What does that mean for me? What's the foundation of life?” It’s not just, “How does it make me feel?" Rather, it should be—"What is the unchanging truth about my life based on the unchanging truth about God and what he has done? What has God said about me or us or the Church?” Those things are unchanging truths that don't depend on whether I am having a good time or a bad time. They are about me, but they are really about God and what God has done in me. Worship is not just about singing songs that make me feel better. In the middle of whatever I am facing, God is with me. Worship should be exciting, but founded on the truth of the gospel. Our feelings are a by-product of the glorious truth we are celebrating.

Adrian
Do you think there is still as much disagreement among Christians over music as there previously was?

Stuart
I don't think there is. It’s a shame that some think lively worship has to be the modern stuff. People have been getting excited for centuries. But songs that were divisive have now been embraced. There are, however, some churches out there who are singing songs that contain theology that they actually wouldn't preach.

Adrian
Indeed! In Christ Alone has also caused some controversy, hasn't it?

Stuart
Yes, some people breach copyright law by changing a particular line. Some people will not use the song. But the problem with that is that some people are saying we shouldn't preach or sing about a core element of the gospel. I cannot make sense of the whole Bible without the concept of wrath.

Listen to the full interview by subscribing to my new podcast or download it here. For more information, visit Stuart Townend's website or read the interview Newfrontiers Magazine Online did with him in October of 2007. You can also legally download music, lyrics, and mp3's from Stuart Townend at the Kingsway website

I have just been listening to a message by my pastor, Tope Koleoso, who was recorded at a recent conference on building a multicultural church. I have become so used to what God has been doing these past couple of years at Jubilee that I sometimes need to remind myself that genuinely racially integrated churches are actually far from common. We truly have a lot to be grateful for. I really think you may well enjoy listening to Tope on this subject. The message can be downloaded or you can listen to it right here:



Other talks from the same conference are also available, as is a series of talks on 'gracism' preached at another multicultural church in South London.

Tope is a dynamic speaker, and most of the time does not focus on racial issues, preferring to simply get on with preaching the Bible to a church which happens to have different nationalities attending. If you want to hear more of him, you can visit the website of the church I attend where you will also find sermons by others, including myself. Tope has also preached at a number of other churches, and some of them have put his messages online:

• Tope Koleoso at City Hope Church, Bermondsey—"Celebrating Diversity: Move on From Integrating Multiculture to Love and Acceptance," 10th February 2008.
  
  
• Tope Koleoso at Christ Church, London—"Regaining Refreshing (Acts 3)," 15th April 2007.
  
  
• Tope Koleoso at Church of Christ the King, Brighton—"Godliness is Profitable For All Time" and "Pursuing the Wonderful God," December 2006.

I can't offer two conferences for the price of one, but I can—in one post—discuss two conferences which, for all the similarities of their names, do have some important differences. For a start, they are on opposite sides of the Atlantic, so booking into the wrong one would be a significant logistical headache! I am quite sure, however, that many will cross the "pond" to attend one of what I am calling the "Together" conferences. In fact. they don't happen at the same time, so it is very possible for you to attend BOTH if you want to, as at least one blogger I know is considering!

Both conferences have one important thing in common—they are filling up FAST and expect to be sell-outs, having to turn people away. Hotel rooms are disappearing even more rapidly for both events. Since I have now firmly booked my own place on the second one (sadly I can't make the first), I feel safe to remind you, my readers, that it is time to MOVE QUICKLY!



TOGETHER FOR THE GOSPEL (T4G)
Tuesday April 15 - Thursday April 17, 2008
Kentucky International Convention Center, Louisville, KY
BOOK HERE
It doesn't seem possible that it is now almost two years since this conference first burst onto the international stage. Representing a relationship-based coming together of much of what is best in various different evangelical traditions, this conference models something we would all do well to learn from. Speakers for T4G are Ligon Duncan, Thabiti Anyabwile, John MacArthur, Mark Dever, R. C. Sproul, Albert Mohler, John Piper and C. J. Mahaney.



TOGETHER ON A MISSION (TOAM)
Tuesday July 8 - Friday 11, 2008
Brighton Conference Centre, UK
BOOK HERE
TOAM is the international leaders conference for a worldwide family of approximately 600 churches, although it is open to anyone. There will be 5000 delegates gathering from some 50 nations. Less a conference, more a family reunion, TOAM has a very different feel from any other conference I have ever attended. This year Mark Driscoll will be the main visiting speaker. Speakers for TOAM are Terry Virgo, Mark Driscoll, Stephen Van Rhyn, Dave Stroud, David Devenish, P-J Smyth, Dave Holden, Guy Miller, Wendy Virgo, Mick Taylor, Roger Smith, Steve Oliver, Jeremy Simpkins, John Groves, Greg Haslam, John Hosier, and Ray Lowe

No. 7 on the list of most-read posts on this blog appeared on November 26, 2005, and endeavored to explain that curious phenomenon—a charismatic Calvinist or "reformed charismatic." There was a time when we were considered an oddity and people doubted our existence. Now, at least in England, reformed charismatics are on the ascendancy and many Christians are intrigued by us.

With the resurgence of interest in things reformed and charismatic, I thought I'd post a bit on what I feel is a "reformed charismatic." Simply put, reformed charismatics are those people who are trying to foster a convergence by taking the best that is available from both charismatics and reformed people. If, like me, you are convinced of the following points, you might be a reformed charismatic:

• Mark Dever and Rick Warren both have useful things to say to the Church.
  
  
• C. J. Mahaney is an acceptable person to preach from a pulpit normally filled by John MacArthur.
  
  
• You like reading blogs by Tim Challies and Phil Johnson, but also by the pneuma bloggers.
  
  
• You like the Alpha Course, and enjoy reading Spurgeon and Piper.
  
  
• You just don't see why there is such anger between certain charismatics and some of their reformed brothers. At the same time you still believe that there really is a truth to discover.
  
  
• You are in a reformed church, but secretly long for more of an experience of God. You are in a charismatic church, but secretly enjoy listening to preaching and reading books that teach substantial theology.

In a sense reformed charismatics are occupying the center ground. Like "new Labor," they advocate a third way. It is really possible, they say, to pursue a solid biblical knowledge and sound doctrine while experiencing the presence and the power of God in a real way today. The Word and the Spirit are not in conflict, but rather work together to cause us to know God.

The charismatics believe in a God who is alive and acts today. We believe in a God who wants a personal relationship with his followers, who hears prayers, who reveals himself, who pours out his love into our hearts, and who never changes and is the same God of the Bible today. We believe that receiving the Holy Spirit is a conscious real experience. We believe that this experience of the Spirit is one of the major ways that God gives us assurance that we are saved.

The reformed believe in the solas of the reformation, and in the classical evangelical position on the gospel. We believe that man is so dead in his sin and facing the wrath of God that he requires a work that entirely originates in God to deal with it.

Read more . . . What is a Reformed Charismatic?

No 12 on the list of most-read posts on this blog appeared on May 15, 2005, and examined the events surrounding and subsequent to what came to be known as "The Toronto Blessing."

I published this post from an article I had written many years prior to May of 2005. In some ways it was this article that first stirred the "writing bug" in me. I surveyed the historical events associated with "The Toronto Blessing," and also looked at some biblical and church history data. Some of my reformed friends may be uncomfortable with the fact that I am willing to see good in what happened. No doubt some of my charismatic friends will be unhappy with the fact that I also accept that unhelpful excesses occurred in some places.

In addition to the sections I have republished here ("An Outpouring of the Holy Spirit? What On Earth is Going On?" and the "Origins of the Movement"), I also trace its spread to the UK, similar phenomena in history, what our response should be to these phenomena, and how to test similar movements. You can read my thoughts on those issues by clicking here or on the link provided at the bottom of this post.

I thought I would share with you—for history's sake and in its entirety—an article I wrote almost eleven years ago about the so-called "Toronto Blessing."

An Outpouring of the Holy Spirit? What on Earth is Going On?

In the months following May 1994, there was a sudden wave of bizarre phenomena in many churches in the UK, USA, and elsewhere in the world from a wide variety of backgrounds. Since then, the city of Toronto, Canada, has become closely associated with these events. Much attention has been drawn to all of this in both the secular and Christian press.

Phenomena widely reported with these events included falling over, laughing, crying, shaking, peculiar movements, cries, roars, intoxicating joy, and incoordination. While a dramatic transformation in the life of many of the people affected by these phenomena was observed, a large number of conversions was not reported and most people did not call this a revival.

The falling may, on occasion, have been sudden and violent. I am unaware of any cases of injury resulting. Giddiness was sometimes reported prior to the fall. There usually was not a total loss of consciousness, and most were able to hear, although they might not respond. A feeling of detachment was common—hours could go by and seem like minutes. An apparent spastic or flaccid paralysis was often present in individuals affected. Many reported impressions and visions imparted to them while on the floor. Some felt as if they were physically pinned to the floor and felt quite unable to move.

Likewise, shaking and other apparently involuntary movements took a wide variety of forms. These had to be seen to be believed, but included repetitive leaping to a great height, a heightened physiological tremor, twitching, and being thrown as though hit by an electric charge.

All of the above phenomena occurred in combination with the same individual. They sometimes followed prayer, with laying on of hands, or began spontaneously during worship, preaching, or alone at home. People became so intoxicated with joy that they had to be carried to their cars. Some were carried out rigid, others staggered as though drunk. It was very difficult to observe all of this without wondering, "What on earth is going on?"

A pattern emerged from study of the spread of the these phenomena. People, and especially church leaders, flocked to the affected churches to investigate. Even the skeptical found themselves being affected, much to their surprise. Upon their return home, often before assimilating what had happened, they found similar events breaking out in their own churches. The briefest of statements about God doing strange new things might be followed by a request for any who would like a fresh touch from God to stand. Often at this point an entire congregation would stand to its feet, and following a short prayer, a sudden outbreak of the above phenomena occurred. Those affected might not have even heard of the specific phenomena that had occurred elsewhere!

Origins of the Movement

The center of much of this attention, with 20,000 to 30,000 visitors from around the world in the first six months of 1994, was a tiny building at the end of a runway in Canada where the Toronto Airport Vineyard Church (now Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship) was meeting. John Wimber was the unofficial leader of the Vineyard Movement, of which this church was a member. This was one of several groups of charismatic or "new" churches worldwide. The Vineyard Movement was strongest in the USA, but certainly had churches elsewhere, including London.

Although the controversial John Wimber had seen many of these reported phenomena on a smaller scale in his conferences, he seemed to have had little to do directly with the birth of this movement. Indeed, Mr. Wimber subsequently died.

The first place where these phenomena occurred in the intensity and extent now so well known was actually not Toronto, but in the USA. In 1989, South African evangelist, Rodney Howard-Browne, complained that his meeting was being ruined when many people fell off their seats and began laughing. He soon became convinced that God was to blame. These events followed Howard-Browne and persisted after he had left, spreading rapidly. In April 1993, during meetings in Florida which were attended by 10,000 people, waves of laughter affected the congregation. Subsequently, widespread attention was drawn to these events. Approximately 2,200 people were baptized in water, and 800 new members were added to the host church by the middle of 1994. Another church in the area, whose initially reluctant pastor was suddenly struck to the floor with laughter, reported that by the middle of 1994 the church had grown from 800 to 1,500.

As a result of this meeting, Howard-Browne was invited to preach to 4,000 students later that year. He reported, "One night I was preaching on hell ... [laughter] just hit the whole place. The more I told the people what hell was like, the more they laughed. When I gave an altar call, they came forward by the hundreds to be saved."

The interesting thing has been that far from dying down after this evangelist left town, the phenomena continued and spread. The movement did not appear to be centered in a man, and in terms of its spread to the UK, Howard-Browne played a very limited role.

Since 1991, there has also been a separate outbreak in Argentina, where the phenomena seemed to be associated with a full-scale revival. In November 1993, John Arnott, the pastor of the Toronto Vineyard Church, traveled to Argentina and the United States to see what was happening. He met with another Vineyard pastor, Randy Clark of St. Louis, who had been prayed for by Rodney Howard-Browne and subsequently experienced similar effects in his own church.

On the 20th of January 1994, a meeting with Randy Clark took place in the Toronto Vineyard and the phenomena broke out. Very soon, news spread and the people started coming to investigate. From this church, other Vineyard churches and many other groups were affected.

Read more . . . "The Toronto Blessing" - When The Church Seemed To Be Going Mad

No. 14 on the list of most-read posts on this blog appeared on June 28, 2007, and was the summary post of an interview with the father of the family of churches of which I am thrilled to be a part, and a man I respect like few others alive today. Terry Virgo is that rare true gift of God to the global Church, a man who will leave the worldwhile Church in a far better state than he found it. His influence extends far beyond the 500 churches which are a part of Newfrontiers to the many thousands of others who have been affected by his teaching.

If you want to keep in touch with Terry, please do add Terry Virgo's Blog to your reading list or keep visiting here, where his posts will appear in the Warnie Winners headline box from now on.

So far in this interview with Terry Virgo we have looked at his view of the wider church scene, the origins, and then the distinctives of Newfrontiers. Today we will examine his view of the future.

Terry, I would love to draw your attention now to the future. What do you think it holds for you and the family of churches you lead?

Within Newfrontiers it is essential that we prayerfully look for emerging apostles and not simply regional supervisors. I thank God for regional supervisors who help us to serve the Church, but it's essential that we make space for genuinely anointed apostles and let them find their own sphere. We must be flexible. I think that the Apostle Paul was called by God, developed his own apostolic sphere, and then received the right hand of fellowship from Peter and John who were Apostles before him. Paul came out of a different stable. He wasn't made an apostle by Peter and John; they acknowledged that he was one. We need to look for the same kind of development — we look for gifting and give it the right hand of fellowship rather than thinking that we can institutionally appoint people into that office.

How would that happen? How would you recognize that?

In South Africa the unexpected death of Simon Pettit, our senior leader, has forced the issue in an extraordinary way. God said to us that an oak tree had fallen, but not to be replaced by another one. Instead, saplings were growing and we were to discern who they were and encourage their growth. Now, what I have observed is that there are three or four guys who are gifted in raising up leaders, raising up churches, and overseeing churches. They have done it as a result of their own gifting. So, instead of trying to set up a South Africa structure, we aim to recognize gifting. So we want to say to different brothers, we see you emerging as apostles, we want to encourage you. But, we want to recognize that you have a gift rather than impose a structure on you.

I want to encourage those men to gather their own teams — to find their Timothys. We want to fan the flame of their gifting, exhort them to go for it, father them, but believe God for their apostolic gifting.

Historically, in what we call Newfrontiers, Terry Virgo was the only person regarded as an apostle since I fathered the movement and started the first churches. I was very reluctant to use the word at all for myself. People used to say to me, "Why don't you make other apostles?" I used to say, I don't know if I am one myself, let alone make anyone else one. We veered to the side of being very reluctant.

As years have gone by we have probably swung too much the other way. We have used the word apostolic as an adjective in a very misty way. We have almost drifted into calling regional leaders apostles. The reality is that regional structures are very helpful, but not every person we have asked to oversee a region demonstrates apostolic gifting. If you formalise regions, you are in great danger of institutionalising so-called apostles. That will never work.

You can just see how the whole bishop structure emerged, can't you?

Yes, and you also get to think of apostles as being responsible for regions, which is almost totally the opposite of what an apostle is. An apostle is a sent one. He is not a maxi-pastor; he has to have freedom to go as that's in his heart, and cannot be over-structured.

I don't want to leave behind a structure which is a shell that uses the labels, but has nothing truly apostolic happening. We have to try to prepare for the next generation. I am pushing late sixties now. I am not going on forever. These are huge issues for us at the moment which we talk a lot about. In recent years we have discussed the implications of my death or retirement. We didn't think Simon would die before me; it was a huge shock. What happened in South Africa has forced the issue for us and been instructive at a time when we are also talking about it theologically and theoretically.

You can never guarantee that you will be saved from institutionalism, but we must do everything in our power to avoid it.

Read more . . . Terry Virgo on the Future

No. 24 on the list of the most widely read posts among readers of my blog appeared on July 13, 2007, and provided an audio link to my interview with Rob Rufus.

Interviewing Rob at the end of the Together on a Mission 2007 Conference was memorable, and those who listened to the mp3 will know just how much laughter was a part of that conversation. In December 2007, the written transcript of this interview with Rob Rufus was published as a series on my blog. Any one of those segments can be read by clicking on the links here:

• Preacher Rob Rufus
  
  
• Rob Rufus on Word and Spirit
  
  
• Rob Rufus: How to Explore the Charismatic
  
  
• Rob Rufus on apostles Today
  
  
• How apostles Work Today

It was a real delight to sit with Rob Rufus and Tope Koleoso at the end of the conference for the following wide-ranging interview. I would strongly encourage you to listen to this, especially if you want to get more insight into what these apostolic families of churches look like in practice, or if you are just intrigued to learn more about the Holy Spirit.

You can download the mp3 or listen to it right here on the blog:

During the months of September and October, I spent a lot of time quoting from a book Justin Taylor produced—a lightly edited John Owen. These can all be read on the category page for posts labeled "John Owen." In November, I gave John Piper on N. T. Wright the same treatment.

I also wrote a post titled