I am now back blogging. I thought I'd let you know about a new feature I am testing out here, and a bunch of websites that have been set up connected to the church where I am part of the leadership team.

Firstly, if you look to your left of the screen you should see a tab that when clicked will open out a draw which forms a tweetboard. This is kind of a replacement for comments. It allows you to discuss posts you see here, or perhaps even connect with other readers of the blog. All posts will also appear at http://twitter.com where you can get an account.

If you have facebook, you can use twitter to update your facebook status line. Some people seem to love twitter and others facebook so having a presence in both places seems like a good idea.

Next week I will be live blogging the Together On A Mission conference once again. If you tweet, and will be there, it would be great if you use the tweetboard on this site during the event. If you are tweeting on a phone and so can't use the tweetboard, please do add #TOAM to your tweets so they are easy to track

Also, new over the last week or two are also the following.

1. A news section on the Jubilee website which is kind of like a blog. http://jubilee-church.org/news

2. A revamped video section where you can stream and download old videos http://jubilee-church.org/video

3. A vimeo channel where you can watch sermon excerpts and other videos about us and Newfrontiers http://vimeo.com/channels/jubilee

4. Twitter sites for some of our leaders:
http://twitter.com/topekoleoso
http://twitter.com/stuartemsley
http://twitter.com/davepask

And, finally, though this is not new, I am at http://twitter.com/adrianwarnock

Hope you enjoy all these new sites!

Do say hello at the conference, tho sadly I cannot make the informal bloggers meet up Dave Bish is organising. Email him for details.

My pastor Tope Koleoso now has a Twitter page which has some fantastic things on it, including some quotes about preaching from my Liam Goligher interview.

During the rest of my blog break keep an eye on Tope's Twitter page. You may also want to follow the new Jubilee Church news/blog page and the Jubilee Church Vimeo Channel, or if you prefer the Youtube Jubilee Church page.

I just couldn't resist another interuption to my break to share with you the following article Tope recently wrote:

“Do it from the heart, or don’t do it at all”
Tope Koleoso
As I preached on Easter Sunday, about the resurrection, a 10 year old boy (Jake Bennett) who was in the congregation, whispered to his grandfather – “why does Tope have to shout when he is preaching”. It is a good question.

I don’t ever shout for effect, for preaching is not acting. I shout because I mount the pulpit to preach with three overriding emotions bubbling up in my soul – Anger, Joy and Love. These three however, have an effect on how I preach.

When I have prepared well, I know the text and the structure of my sermon, but it doesn’t mean that I am ready to preach. It just means that I have a mental understanding of what the text says. Good preaching however, is not just about the science of exegesis. That is too easy and cheap and even a non Christian can probably do a good job of that.

No. Good preaching happens when the Holy Spirit moves the heart of the preacher by the text, the preachers experience, and the “now” Word of God to his soul. All of these move me at an emotional and spiritual level. Emotional because my heart is involved. Spiritual because the Holy Spirit is involved.

This means that during the sermon, any one of the mentioned emotions, (Anger, Joy or Love), spill out without warning or apology. This is because when I am preaching, I am angry at satan and sin, I am joyful about salvation and hope, and I am eager to show the Love of God to the lost.

Therefore, I shout, I laugh, I cry, and I dance. Therefore, I use my voice, my hands, my legs and my eyes. Therefore, I will do it with utter conviction and passion for if I will not do it from the heart, I will not do it at all. Therefore, I engage the crowd, the best I can for I will not be ignored seeing that I carry the greatest message the world has ever heard . . .

READ MORE from Why I Shout When I Preach

Elijah Prays For Rain from Adrian Warnock on Vimeo. Note that at the end of the video you will need to click on part two within the video player to watch the rest. You can also download the video in high definition from vimeo, or lower definition as well as audio from the CCK website.

In a couple of weeks time I will be at the Together On A Mission conference hosted by a man who I have been looking up to spiritually for three decades. I wanted to interrupt my blog break to share this sermon here to help those of you who will be joining us there prepare for the event.

This year's event feels like it will be more intimate. It will be a family gathering unusually with no outside speakers. Terry and the other speakers will no doubt be wanting to deliver messages that will shape Newfrontiers at this vital stage in our development. Can I strongly urge anyone who will be there, and also our friends from many different movements who cannot, to please pray for us. So, sit back, get yourself a cup of tea and watch this sermon, then put what you learn into practice.

Terry is a leader of leaders and through his ministry God has accomplished an incredible amount, including a movement of more than 600 churches in 50 nations. One thing that is perhaps less well known about Terry is that he is a real man of prayer. This comes across in the many prayer meetings he leads, and there is a long history of personal wrestling with God in prayer that has birthed this movement.

In this video Terry Virgo preaches on the subject of prayer using the prayer of Elijah. Be inspired to put into practice lessons from this prophet who James described as "a man just like us"

Please consider sharing this message on your own blog as I believe that in it God has a message for the church as a whole. If we will wake up, and begin to be more passionate in our prayers for God to act, who can imagine what God can do. Lets urge him "your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven"

The Full Series On Elijah By Terry Virgo

#1 - The Voice Of God

1 Kings 17:1 Download

#2 - A Man Who Stood Before God
1 Kings 17:1 Download

#3 - A Man of Personal Obedience
1 Kings 17:1-17 Download

#4 - I Have Commanded a Widow to Provide For You
1 Kings 17:7-16 Download

#5 - Trusting Through a Trial
1 Kings 17:8-24 Download - Download video

#6 - If the Lord is God follow Him
1 Kings 18 Download - Download video

#7 - Mount Carmel - Gunfight at the O.K. Corral
1 Kings 18 Download - Download video

#8 - Elijah Prays for Rain
1 Kings 18:41-46 Download - Download video

It’s funny how God often uses odd little coincidences to hammer home something he wants to say to you. I realized, thanks to the posts from my recent sermon, that I hadn’t shared the next installment of my story with you. So I dug out the old version of this post, set about beginning to edit it, and considered if it needed any expansion.

The first few paragraphs were all about how I had decided to take a blog break and how that break had reminded me of something that God had taught me many years ago. I nearly deleted those paragraphs altogether as, at first, they didn’t seem very relevant to my situation at the moment. I wasn’t just finishing a blogging break, nor surely was I about to start one.

Then, it suddenly dawned on me. I have three messages to give in the next three weeks. The last of these is one of the seminars at Together On A Mission. So I have plenty of prayer and preparation to do alongside my normal work. I suddenly concluded that it is indeed a good time, therefore, for me to put my blog into hibernation mode, probably until the beginning of the conference, at which I will once again be live-blogging. It is possible that I may sneak a post or two in before then, but if not, I will definitely be back at the latest on the 7th of July. I have edited the following post less than I thought I would, and am grateful for the reminder. I hope to be able to spend some of the time I save walking in the woods, praying

Just before Christmas 2006, someone I know asked me what I was going to do on my blog to “follow” my interview with Wayne Grudum. In that moment I knew exactly how I was going to follow it—with silence. Sometimes the best way to try and follow something is quite simply not to! To be honest, I felt like I needed a break anyway. During that time not one of my readers wrote to me asking me to write something on my blog. Either that means they didn’t miss me—perhaps because they had all been busy—or they simply took me at my word that I was taking a “prolonged break.”

Or, perhaps more likely, it shows the place of a blog in the average reader’s day—it's a piece of light entertainment that we can live with or without—in a snatched moment in-between everything else we do that is much more important. So my little “sabbatical” back then, and the times I did the same thing since, didn’t cost you guys anything—there is always another blog to read. And, in any case, if for some strange reason someone was desperate for a dose of “Warnie,” then this blog has been around long enough that simply looking in the archives would uncover something you hadn’t read yet. In fact, especially when I have had breaks that involved recycling old material, I found that sometimes my readership actually increased!

Putting ourselves to one side for awhile to reflect is no bad thing; indeed it has biblical precedent, as does the thought that God tends to do things in “waves” or “seasons.” I really felt at Christmas 2006 it was right for me to just stop blogging for a few weeks. It also coincided with a needed pause in my preaching commitments, and although I still worked at my day job, it almost felt like a holiday. I then started 2007 blogging with a personal post reflecting on a period of my life when it was God who put me on the substitute bench, and for a period that lasted several years and not just a few weeks.

By the age of 18, I had a lot of the over-confidence of youth, but that was tinged with the realization that I had a lot to learn. As I left the safety of my parental home and launched out into London to study medicine, God had a plan to teach me one of the most important lessons of my life—one which every now and then I am reminded that I still do not fully live in the light of.

My youthful enthusiasm for God was, at least in part, because I felt I could hold my own socially in a church environment much better than I could out in the world. It's funny, because like many outwardly confident gregarious people, I was far from confident on the inside. Although all my evangelistic activities at school made me feel like public enemy number one, I would console myself that surely God was pleased with me despite the views of my school colleagues. In church, I had a different role and I took a lot of solace from feeling that people there valued my contribution. As I already described, I had been given leadership and preaching experience and received a lot of encouragement. I was convinced that some sort of ministry awaited me, having had a sense of “call” since early childhood. I foolishly persuaded myself that if life at school was hard, at least my work for God’s church showed that I had something to offer. God was about to go to work to begin to destroy the pride that I didn’t even realize I had.

God has a way of taking a dream and killing it—stone dead. Sure, he will often resurrect it years later, but you don’t tend to think much about that at the time—all you can see is (to paraphrase Monty Python) your dream is “stone dead, demised, passed on, no more, has ceased to be, a stiff, bereft of life, snuffed out, up the creek and kicked the bucket, extinct in its entirety, an ex-dream.” I remember well once during those years, when someone suggested that I might preach, the thought that went through my mind was simply, “No way!”

All this happened to me over the course of a few years, and much as you might think that process couldn’t have been from God, as I look back, I am more and more convinced he was, in fact, orchestrating the whole thing.

I am glad of two things, both of which suggest that perhaps the dream wasn’t in truth totally dead. Firstly, although during this time I found myself worshipping in different kinds of churches, I kept my links going with Newfrontiers by attending the Bible Weeks, and also through a friendship with a pastor, a dear man named Henry Tyler (who was my mentor for many years and who comes back into the story later on). Secondly, I did not lose my relationship with God, nor my love of reading theology and the biographies of preachers of the past. But I'm rushing ahead of myself. I haven’t told you how my dream came to die.

When I arrived at university I was suddenly a small fish in the big pond of London. The successful University Christian Union didn’t seem to need me to exercise the gifts of which I'd sadly become proud, nor did the charismatic church I attended in the morning or the evangelical Anglican church I attended in the evening. Suddenly I was not “doing things” for God anymore; no preaching, no leadership, not even leading Bible studies. This carried on for several years, and I didn’t press for things to happen, but instead slowly, and initially reluctantly, began to refocus my relationship with God from “doing” things to “being” his child.

Terry Virgo describes receiving a prophetic word early-on in his Christian walk that told him he was called primarily to be a worshipper of Jesus, and that anything else was a bonus. That was the lesson God wanted to engrave in me in those “fallow” years as a medical student. I only wish that I could honestly say that my teenage years were the last time I busied myself with too much activity and not enough falling in love with Jesus. The truth is, sadly, that like so many of us, there have been many times in my life where I have been so caught up with what I was doing for God that I forgot that the most important thing he wants from me is for me to simply be his son and worship him. In fact, when re-reading these words it made me realize that right now I need to I need once again to be reminded of exactly this point.

How foolish we are to believe that we can give anything to God with our hard work. As Paul puts it in 1 Corinthians 4:7: “For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?”

God has given us everything we have, and even our serving him is just another expression of our dependence on him. He is the one who gives us every breath that we take as a gift of grace, not as our right. How often do we Christians get frustrated because our so-called “rights” are violated, or because we didn’t get what we wanted, or because our hard work wasn’t appreciated, or even because our “ministry” isn’t recognized by others? The true servant of God is immune to such thoughts for he realizes that even the strength he uses to serve is given him by God, and that it is God who decides what paths he wants us all to take.

I wish I could learn this once and for all, but I guess we are put on earth to struggle with this issue all our lives. There is something within us that longs for self-sufficiency, self-fulfillment, and self-worth. God, instead, wants us to be God-dependent, God-fulfilled, and worthy only because of what Jesus has done for us.

In the second half of 2009, I want to refocus my life once more on Jesus and knowing him better. Everything else must flow out from that. There is a sense of dissatisfaction within me once more with filling my life with activity and not leaving enough time to reflect and grow as a worshipper of Jesus. I am brought back to a passage I am often reminded of:

“But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ. Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead . . .

Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. Let those of us who are mature think this way, and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal that also to you. Only let us hold true to what we have attained.” (Philippians 3:7-16)

Those quiet years were, for me, a time of pruning. There were, however, a couple of things going on in addition to my education. Firstly, God arranged for a family to mentor me during those years in understanding other cultures, which would prove very helpful later on. And secondly, my reading was slowly turning me into someone who thought he understood theology. As the years went on, sadly, I became more and more focused on having theological arguments with other Christians. I am ashamed to say that it got to the point where pretty much every time I met someone, I would sniff out the areas of theology with which I disagreed with them and aggressively engage them in debate. I became someone who wasn’t always very pleasant to be around. Fortunately, God had a plan to help me to learn better social skills, and also to revive my dream of serving him in some way. But you will have to wait for the next post in this long-running series to hear about that.

Pastor Jamie Munson is the elder who runs Mars Hill Church where Mark Driscoll is the preaching elder. He filmed Joel Virgo, lead elder of CCK Brighton and others from that church greeting Mars Hill on his recent visit to Brighton. HT: Mars Hill Blog

Brighton CCK from Mars Hill Church on Vimeo.

A message to Mars Hill Church from Pastor Joel Virgo and other folks at Church of Christ the King in Brighton, England.

My new friend Matt Sweetman is leading the Newfrontiers Chicago Church plant. He has 197 prayer partners for this exciting venture. Will you be 200th? Or, as he is new to Chicago, if you live there or have friends who do, he wants to meet with as many residents one on one for coffee as possible to talk about what its like to live in the city. He is eager to learn everything he can. Whatever your church background (or lack thereof) he wants to understand as much about how to impact this strategic place. Visit his site, and tell him I sent you!

This is the video of a sermon preached by Lex Loizides (who I also interviewed) at Jubilee Church, London last Sunday. You can also download the audio. This message is a great introduction to the Christian faith and we saw a good response to the gospel as a result.

I have known Lex for approximately twenty years. His passion for Jesus is, if anything, more infectious now than when I first met him. Spending this twenty minutes or so with him left me wanting to tell more people about Jesus. I suspect that if you pour yourself a coffee, pull up a chair, and join us, you will feel the same.

We spent some time together speaking about how he came to be an evangelist who travels to many countries sharing the good news alongside local churches. He said that his involvement with Jubilee Church Cape Town for many years (he is one of the elders there) has been vital for his ministry. Lex has a blog which focuses on church history. He is passionate about bringing reformed theology, a respect for the great events of church history, and a love for the unchanging gospel of the Bible together with evangelistic zeal, faith, and an expectation of the miraculous presence of Jesus. It’s a great recipe, in my opinion!

Lex Loizides — Interview With A Church-Based Evangelist from Adrian Warnock on Vimeo.

On Saturday 16th May, my good friend, Lex Loizides, will be leading a day conference aimed at equipping Christians for the work of reaching out with the gospel. There are still spaces available at this event, which will take place at Kings Church Catford.

On Sunday 17th May there will be special guest services taking place across Southeast England. Lex will be speaking at one of these events which will begin at 10 a.m. at Jubilee Church in the Enfield Cineworld (on the A10). Lex will be preaching the gospel and praying for the sick.

The theme of the day conference is Authority:

The Authority of Christ: How much authority does Jesus Christ actually have? Is his mission in the world going to be successful? Does the name of Jesus really have authority today?

The Authority of the Believer: Do we have real authority as his followers – to heal the sick, to help those who are suffering and bring positive solutions to peoples’ lives?

The Authority of the Gospel: Is the gospel message still relevant and powerful? Can we grow in confidence as individuals so that the conversations we have and the friendships we build have a genuine effect?

Seminars will include:

• ‘Missional Leadership: Learning to be missional as an individual, as a leadership team, and as a local Church’
• Challenging Questions: What about other religions?
• Leading people to Christ effectively
• Getting to know our Muslim neighbors

This Sunday will be one of the highlights of our year at Jubilee. It is our international day and annual giving day. We are expecting large crowds as we dress in clothes from more than 36 nations, worship together, and then eat food from around the world.

If you live near London and would like to visit a growing multicultural church, this Sunday would be a great day to do it. Come early if you want a seat in the main auditorium rather than the overflow.

Jubilee church meets in Enfield Cineworld which is on the A10 between the M25 and A406. You can’t miss it!

Stuart Townend Interview from Adrian Warnock on Vimeo.

Filmed at New Word Alive 2009, this is an interview with leading song writer Stuart Townend, who is one half of the team that composed "In Christ Alone". Stuart and I had a lot of fun, and spoke a bit about what its like for us being at an event like this. We also spoke about worship, and music styles. He explained his interest in folk music, talking about how the melody is much more prominent than in other styles.

I want to encourage you to consider coming to the Newfrontiers Leaders and Student/Twenties conference this July. There is a video below that gives a good "feel" for what the event is like.

People will be attending from every continent of the world. If you have never been in a charismatic conference which also is deeply committed to the Bible, you have really missed out. Mark Driscoll last year described our prayer evening there as "a prayer meeting on pro-plus!" Come and discover what it is that has driven a movement that begun 30 years ago to grow to 600+ churches in 50 nations of the world. The conference is open to everyone whether or not they are part of this family as we are great believers in being blessed by and blessing people from different segments of the church. Come and join us!


TOGETHER ON A MISSION 2009 from Newfrontiers on Vimeo.

In his recent flying visit to the UK I was able to grab worship pastor Tim Smith for an interview. Tim has been with Mark Driscoll at Mars Hill for something like 10 years and is an integral part of the operations there, responsible for co-ordinating worship bands for their 20 services.

We spoke about his impressions of Newfrontiers, and the similarities and differences with Acts 29 and Mars Hill. He suggested that perhaps they had something to learn from our pneumatology, whilst perhaps we had something to learn from their missionlogy. We had a lot of fun, and covered a lot of ground. Tim speaks fast, and thinks fast too. My kinda guy. If you watch it to the end, you will see Tope Koleoso, too. You can download the mp3 or watch the video:

VIDEO:

Tim Keller - Cultural Transformation from Newfrontiers on Vimeo.

In his final session with Newfrontiers Keller highlighted that we find relating to the culture to be an increasing problem in the West. We now have a post-Christian culture. The Anglo-saxons struggled with Christianity because it believed in forgiveness and compassion for the weak. They felt that culture couldn't survive without respect and fear. Northern European paganism was bloodthirsty and power hungry. Christianity changed the attitudes to the poor and weak. Society now says we don't need Christianity because we care for the weak, and we forgive.

They have robbed christianity of all their assets but thrown out God. The claim is that we dont need God to have a society. Lets be Christian for 2000 years then throw it out, and maybe it works. We have a new situation. Secular societies in Europe are living off the plundered capital of Christianity. But we have earned the scorn of the unbelievers.

The old problem of paganism is the idea of individual power which is creeping back in. At the street level increasingly as Christianity recedes life will be based on individual power and exploitation. Europe almost needs to get really non-Christian to get Christian again. It has many of the benefits and refinements of a Christian civilization but has lost the heart.

Have to reflect more and more about how to relate. Three wrong ways to go and one right.

1. Defensive against
- triumphalism, Marked by the Christian right. Attitude is that largely through politics we need to take back the culture by taking Christian values and making sure the law upholds them. No distinction between private and public. Get back into corridors of power. Get legislation.

2. Purity from
They say that Christians shouldn't try and purify society at all. Neo-Anabaptist - form counter cultures but don't salt society. Just win souls. Stay away.

3. Relevant To
Christians are so out of it we need to change. Make our music and message are culturally relevant. Hip. Get updated.

4. Faithful presence within
We are not trying to take over nor trying to be absent. We need to be willing and able to take our people into the financial world, the arts, the academic world, movies and TV. Be in all those places. Going to them to serve. We have to help people integrate their faith with their work. Churches tend to pull people out of their world into the church. "I want to teach you how to run a bible study and eventually become an elder". We need to help people to know what kind of roles can I accept as a Christian actor. What I am doing is important.

You are salt of the earth. This is about being a preservative, medicine and seasoning. Serve people changing people, leavening. If you are not salt you are sand. It's tough not to suck up to the culture and compromise. We must be faithful.

VIDEO now available here:

Tim Keller - The City from Newfrontiers on Vimeo.

During Tim Keller's second session with Newfrontiers he spoke on the importance of cities.

Cities are strategic and have lots of people yet they are poorly served by the Church. Disporportionately important and disproportionately underepresented in terms of ministry. This is not to say that every Christian should move to the city, but that movements like Newfrontiers as a people should begin to focus on the cities more.

Biblically cities are a place of refuge. They are places of Cultrual formation and communication. Cities in the Bible were smaller 1-3000 people but densely populated and behind a wall. The fortification brought protection. In cities you had law, elders in the gate, cases were solved. Decisions made. Not just blood feuds. Away from the city it was all about farming. In cities there was specialisation and hence economy.. Civilisation literally means citification. Densely populaterd and diverse even in old times.

Cities were and are places for the weak. If you are single and in your 30s or 40s and unmarried you are a freak outside of the country, but in the city you are normal. Foreigners outside of the city feel like an alien, but in the city you are not alone. In the city there is always lots of you whoever you are. Where immigrants go to assimilate. If you are homosexual out of the cities until recently you would get beaten up, but in city you are safe. Cities are harder to live in if you are white male married with a family. For everyone else cities are easier. Eg very wealthy people are minorities in smaller community they get set upon. So they congregate to cities. Cities are merciful.

Cities are places where culture is formed. God told Adam and Eve to build a culture = dominion. They failed. Heaven is a city. Coming out of heaven it wasnt a suburb or a garden In the middle of the city is the tree of life. They were meant to turn the garden into a garden city. Garden of Eden the word used was more of an urban park.

Cities are culture forming wombs. You are thrown togetehr with people who are like you, but also with people who are not like you. This leads to massive creativity. This creative tension always births new culture. Dont abandon the place where the culture is formed and then complain about how the world is going!

Paul gets a vision - Tim joke that he was obviously not a presbtyerian or he would have said "I must have eaten something" Tim continued in light-hearted mode to claim that Paul must have been a member of Newfrontiers (!) Paul always went ot the cities to preach. So urbancentric in his mission. Ignored the countryside or rather left it for the churches he planted to reach out to Paul only planted churches in cities.

1. Personal cruciality in cities. People are constantly going through changes, not as conservative open to new ideas. People are set in their ways outside cities.

2. Cultural crucial. schools are there. Journals are there.

3.Global cruciality - win not just individual people, but win the world. Can go to morroco for ten years and do mission or go to London and reach the world. Because Christians concentrated on cities, a high percentage of cities were Christian by AD 300. Countryside remained laregely pagan and in fact htats what the word pagan means. If the cities are pagan and countryside is pagan then culture is going pagan. As the cities go so goes the culture.

Five convluding reflections

1. If you want to reach the world you try to reach cities. World is in the cities people are more open to the gospel than they would ever be in their own countries.
2. If you want to reach overseas as well as your region, reach the cities. "New Jeresey is way father from New york than Manilla" Start from the inside and work out.
3. You need to reach the city in order to reach the culture. Chruches in cities are the only hope that the things coming out will change.
4. HAve to reach the whole city to reach the world. Cant neglect the urban poor. We will have no credibility for the wider culture if we are not involved with this. The immigrants must be reached as you can prove Ephesians 2 is true - that the gospel enables people to get along who outside of Christ would never get along. Need multi-ethnic churches. Got to reach the elites.

If you really want to drive the gospel deep into your heart, you have to go to cities. Don't want anybody to think that ministry in cities is more important than elsewhere, its just that God is caling people everywhere. There are people who have come to faith in christ in cities that have changed so much that didnt believe if hadnt seen it. Gospel can change people. Complexity of cities drives you to your knees. Too many problems. Hard to grow preachers kids up to respect christianty. Can be embarrassed by church. Not so much if it is leading to salvation. Tim explained that for years he had a Q and A time after every service. He encouraged us to make a major fuss over baptism.

Video of this talk is now available to watch here:

Tim Keller - Preaching the Gospel from Newfrontiers on Vimeo.

Earlier in the week, Tim Keller spoke at a Newfrontiers event. He gave three posts, and I was there taking notes but I am really sorry that this is the first chance I have had to tidy them up for publication. There were over 800 people there to hear him. As usual these notes are colored a bit by my own perceptions, and so do not necessarily reflect exactly what he said.



Perhaps because he was standing just beneath where the Doctor actually preached, he appropriately started by talking about Lloyd-Jones. He told us thaat The Doctor had said it was the fact that no one personality type became a christian that led him to believe. Tim made the point that he himself is really different than Mark Driscoll and they are both different from Terry. There is not one kind of person that evangelical Christianity always appeals to. Keller confessed to being a a cynical person, and said that there are not too many charismatic cynics!



He explained that he was not wanting to build a new foundation for us in our consideration of preaching, just to tweak us with four principles:



1. Preaching must be gospel centered



Tim explained that he had reservations about the popular way we tell the gospel as “two ways to live”. He argued that in Western culture we must make sure people know there are in fact three ways to live.

“God's way” vs “Mans Way” is commonly what we say. But it is more clarifying to show people that we can live in either morality, immorality or the gospel. Or put another way, we can live in religion, irreligion or by grace. He drew this out of the story of the Prodigal son. One son was clearly alienated. The other is compliant and obedient trying to please his father but they were both alienated from the father. Both are lost. You can be lost by obeying God as well as by disobeying God.

We try to be our own savior and lord by running off and doing our own thing or by coming to church and praying, and studying the Bible. If you do that believing that God is now going to have to save you and answer your prayers because of how good you are then Jesus is an example, helper, model but he is not your savior. If you are trying to be your own savior and lord you will say "How dare you let bad things happen to me". If you simply say "come to Jesus and follow him" you are inviting people to become the elder brother.



Tim explained that Romans 1 is about pagans and sex, drugs and rock and roll. But Romans 2 is turned on the people passing judgment on them all. Chapter 1 is the younger brother, 2-3 are the older brother. In the sermon on the mount Jesus says "there are two ways to live" - house on rock or on sand. In the sermon it’s people who pray and people who think they will be heard for their many words who are on the sand. It’s people who give for reward vs. those who do it for no reward. In the sermon the two ways are the "good life" and the way of the gospel. i.e. the sermon is against legalism and religion. I obey therefore I am accepted vs. I am accepted because of the work of Jesus on the cross wholly and completely by grace and so I obey out of that.

Religion brings fear - I have to do this or God will get me. Gospel brings gratitude. There is poise to a gospel person who suffers. If you are religious and suffer then you will be angry at God since you think you have “earnt” his blessing. The gopsel tells us “I am more wicked than I ever dared imagine but I am also more loved than I ever could have imagined.” This brings a bold humility. A religious person is always either smug or despondent.



Some people fear that preaching against legalism won’t help the younger brother. Unless the secular person hears you deconstructing legalism they won’t understand the difference. There is a gracious way to live that doesn't turn you into a Pharisee. This has to be in everything you preach.




2. Preaching must be Christ centered


In order to be gospel centered no matter what the text is about you have to bring people to Jesus. If we are just preaching about how to live your life we are preaching synagogue sermons. We must show people the way to Jesus’ salvation. Our default mode is to go back to self-justification.



Tim then joked, "I'm a Presbyterian so I don't hear God as often as you do"! But went on to tell us how years ago he was reading Romans 1:16 and suddenly a thought came: "He who through preaching is righteous will die a thousand deaths every Saturday night" Tim said “even Presbyterians know where that came from!”

He then explained that we have to bang the gospel into peoples heads continually as Luther said. We must get to Jesus. There is a tendency to think that you give them great information and then they are going to go out into the world and use what you taught them to change their life. BUT instead, he believes sermons should be:




3. Life changing on the spot


Its there in their seats that they will be changed. When Jesus came back from the dead and did a biblical seminar, we are told in Luke 24 that he showed them they didn't know how to read the scripture because the bible is all about him. The theme of covenant, Kingdom, exile, all those themes find their climax in Jesus. E.g. Jesus was exiled for us. When Paul says give, he says "because of what Jesus did for us". His generosity is where our wealth and security is.

I have to see Jesus to change me. When you see Jesus in a new way or sense his salvation this will change you on the spot.




4. Culturally transforming


Christians don't do a good job of this. People who are not believers who hear you need to be persuaded. We say to unbelievers "you're wrong". We believe this and that, you in the world don't, we are right and you are nowhere near right now, let us pray! We are negative and combative and blunt. There is another way to go.

Every culture has some things they hate. In the Middle east they love what the gospel says about sex and hate what it says about forgiveness. Here in London, they hate what we say about sex and love what we says about forgiveness and reconciliation. Some doctrines are found appealing (called “a”), others are seen as offensive (called “b”). If you want to preach “b” doctrines that are disarming, you have to float them on a boat of “a” doctrines. We must preach to win people. A lot of people hate the idea of God as judge and punisher.

Keller cited a Croat theologian who would say something like “Many think of you believe that belief in a God of vengeance and wrath leads to violence. This shows you have never suffered yourself. If you had seen your village ravaged and friends and relatives raped, and males murdered, then if you don't believe in a God who is going to put all things right the only alternative is to pick up the sword yourself and smite the people that did that. The only way to live in peace with enemies is to know that God will be just. If you don't understand that you have lived a very sheltered life.”

Here peacemaking is the “a” doctrine that he floated the “b” doctrine of judgement and justice on.

Tim gave another example of a missionary in Korea who found that when she spoke of sovereignty and predestination in that culture that it was easily acceptable and enabled her to build a bridge to grace which on its own was incomprehensible. Tell them that aspects of what they believe is good and right, but then win them and lead them to Christ.



In personal relationships he said we should have a strong bias towards listening. Say “I really need to know what your biggest problems with Christianity are.” You have to be in heavy listening mode till they say "you are articulating my objections better than I can!" When you have connected with their disagreement then you can begin to answer it. They need to be saying “You really do understand where I am coming from...”



He gave an example of how to float predestination to a Christian. “Why are you a Christian and your friend isn't” “because I repented” “why?” then eventually, "Are you saying there is something better about you?" If not, then you believe in predestination.... GRACE requires predestination. In the west, grace is the front door. Don't bring them in the back door!



Keller then alluded to a section on preaching from Jonathan Edwards “Thoughts on Revival”. He said that preaching is about bringing Christ to bear on the heart. In the sermon there is an act of worship. God takes the word of the preacher and gives a person a vision of Jesus that shapes the heart on the spot. We are looking for a divine supernatural light. You can know honey is sweet without tasting it. But we need the sense of the sweetness - give them a taste of Jesus and you will see them change on the spot. I have not been able to identify that quote, despite the wonderful http://edwards.yale.edu If YOU can help us, send me an email.



UPDATE- Dave Bish responded in less than an hour, and said that the honey quote can be found online. In fact Edwards said something similar about honey many times, so it would seem there was another place where it is more related to preaching during revivals.



UPDATE - Joe Rigney has posted some more information about this piece on Edwards.

Keller also mentioned that the Doctor made a comment on that Edwards sermon and as a result he was ambivalent about people taking notes. He asks if it is just information or an act of worship? We should be seeing Jesus. I couldn't find the Doctor's quote either but this one has a similar sentiment:



The life of Christ is in us! It is not theory, it is a life-giving teaching, it is a life-imparting teaching. If I am preaching in the Spirit, as I pray God I am, I am not only uttering words to you, I am imparting life to you, I am being used of God as the channel of the Spirit and my words bring life and not merely knowledge. Do you accept that distinction? I am almost afraid sometimes for those of you who take notes, that you may just be getting the words and not the Spirit. I am not saying that you should not take notes, but I do warn you to be careful. Much more important than the words is the Spirit, the life; in Christ we are being taught, and built up in Him. So that in a sense, though you may forget the words, you will have received the life, and you go out aware of the life of God, as it were, pulsating within you. David Martyn. Lloyd-Jones, Christian Unity (Studies in Ephesians, Chapter 4, Verses 1 Through 16) (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1972), 114.

UPDATE I then got another email from the Bish telling me that I had already linked twice to the Edwards quote in question (!) I should clearly have searched my own site...Anyway, here it is with a URL you can visit:



"The first and primary object of preaching is not only to give information. It is, as Edwards says, to produce an impression. It is the impression at the time that matters, even more than what you can remember subsequently. In this respect Edwards is, in a sense, critical of what was a prominent Puritan custom and practice. The Puritan father would catechize and question the children as to what the preacher had said. Edwards, in my opinion, has the true notion of preaching. It is not primarily to impart information; and while you are writing your notes you may be missing something of the impact of the Spirit. As preachers we must not forget this. We are not merely imparters of information" Jonathan Edwards and the Crucial Importance of Revival by Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones.



Keller recommended a couple of books - Christ Centered Peaching by Brian Chapel, and Graham Goldsworthy Preaching the Whole Bible.

He also suggested his own Christianity Today article on the gospel in all its forms

Actually there are now 6 churches in the Newfrontiers family that meet in Greater Manchester. The one I want to mention today has just been relaunched and you can see their website at Christ Church Manchester. They are based in the East side of Manchester and are lead by Colin Baron.  The East side is, like in London, the poorest area of Manchester and it is excititing to see that they are reaching out to this city which depending on how you measure it is I understand either the second or third largest in the UK. Colin has a long-term vision for Manchester to start 20 churches which he first received driving up the M6! He is an inspiring figure and one who I am thrilled is still serving the vision God gave him all those years ago. Here is a video introducing the church:


20 Churches from Christ Church Manchester on Vimeo.

Other Newfrontiers churches in the Greater Manchester area:

• Bolton Family Church 
  
• Stockport Family Church
  
• Oldham Family Church
  
• The Hope Church Manchester - Salford area.
  
• South Manchester Family Church
  

We are now drawing to a close of our weekend together, although there will still be swimming, and other activities this afternoon. I was pleased yesterday to get a fastest lap time on the gokarts of 21.150. If any of my readers were here and got a faster time, do feel free to let me know!

Terry came to speak to us again on Jonah 2 and 3. Perhaps the key verse in this passage is God's word coming again to Jonah. God is glorious and holy but gives people a second chance repeatedly in the Bible. For example Abraham took over and tried to do what God was meant to do. He made something happen. Moses spent 40 years in the desert.

The Jonah Prayed – Wouldn't you? In the deep in the belly of a great fish where else has he got to turn? He should have started by praying, but at least he finished by doing so. The prodigal son turns when the unpredictable struck. God sends crises to teach us to get to know him. Life can be very hard. Real prayer isn't just worrying out loud. Those who cling to idols forfeit the grace that could be theirs (NIV) We often allow certain values to become more important than our God -eg worrying about schools.

What did Jonah Pray? He cried for help. John Wimber used to encourage us to pray “God, Help!” He knew that God had brought him to this place. He couldn't run away from God really. Don't resist the tug of God, you can't guarantee that God wont banish you. Romans 1 says “God gave them up”. Hell is when God gives up on you.
He turns back to the temple, recognizing that he is in covenant with God. He said he would pay his vow. Psalm 66 says “I will pay you my vows...” We must say “I will do it Lord!” Don't think you are disqualified.

What did God do? Jonah is at his lowest point, and then God acts. God can command anything – even a fish! God commanded the walls of jericho, the red sea, the river jordan, the lions, the flames. Jesus is in the mission with us. He is not back there wondering how we will get on. He says to Paul “I have lots of people here”.

God doesn't send him back onto the water, but onto dry ground. He hits the ground walking. God can get you right out of your trouble. God can control our circumstances. We MUST be strong in prayer.

God forgives him absolutely and he is completely reinstated. He took things up back where he left off. We have to learn how to re-gather and pick up the broken. There are not many who never trip. We need to get people back on their feet again. Jonah then obeyed “according to the word of the Lord.” In our marriages, in our workplaces, everything must be done according to Biblical principles. Eg we still do marriage! But we do it God's way. The son has always submitted to the Father, so our marriages reflect that. He will always be submitted to the father. That is his happy lifestyle. He is totally equal to the Father, but loves to do his will.

God was then mightily with Jonah and a revival struck. But, God's blessing on him still did not make him the perfect man. He messed up in the last chapter. God didn't say “stay in the fish till you are thoroughly sanctified”.

Terry began by giving a report about his trip to Australia and New Zealand which really helped to put his talk into the context of a movement that spans the globe and is on a mission together. It was so exciting to realize how small we are here in this conference even though we are here with 3600 people on a site that is fully booked. This conference is a local one just for a part of the UK. Across the UK and across the world other similar conferences are happening and groups of churches are gathering to form this grace-filled movement. Events like this remind me of how glad I am to be a part of Newfrontiers. Terry then turned to Jonah 1 and read the whole chapter.

2 Kings 14:23-28 tells us Jonah was a popular prophet in a successful state when God interrupts him with a call to go to Ninevah. The whole story turns on the phrase "but Jonah". God had already told Abraham that through them he would bless the ends of the earth. Jonah had slipped away from that, and wasn't interested in other nations. Jonah has only 8 words of prophecy, and the rest of the book is all about him. Its the book of Jonah, not the taking of Ninevah. 120,000 saved is the biggest revival in the Bible, yet God calls it the book of Jonah. He is interested in us as individuals when big challenges come on the scene. God didn't move to plan b when Jonah backslid and ran away. God is always interested in winning back his children.

Jonah failed to submit to God.  He was not too impressed with what God had to say. When God speaks, you are supposed to arise and go (as Abraham and Elijah for example responded to God), not run in the opposite direction. God wants obedience, not just in the big calls, but also in the thousands of words you find in the Bible. God says lots of things very plainly, and we need to very plainly obey. God doesn't give up on people. He wants to include you. He doesn't just want to take Nineveh he wants you to have a story. He loves people and wants them to come through to a place of trust and obedience.

Jonah fled from the presence of the Lord In his disobedience, he trusted his own reasoning. A prophet needs presence. Hebrew word for presence is "face". Jesus said "he is always with me, I always do what pleases him" He refuses to leave the presence of the father. Jesus came from the glory of the father and modeled sonship. We should always make it our aim to please him. Not living as legalists, but living as sons. Our Father is always with us. Beholding the beauty of the Lord sustains us. Beware the danger of living by rules. The prodigal son had run away, but his brother who was compliant and home-staying son but although he had never left had never really been in the fathers presence. He didn't appreciate what it meant to be a son of his loving father.

Jonah found a ship We can sometimes think " it just all fell into place". People sometimes say "we were just thrown together" we were led by circumstance. That can be an excuse for sinful relationships.  We are not led that way. We mustn't throw away everything because of what is in front of us.


Jonah fell asleep He got into the ship that was going nowhere and lost all his sense of direction. Sometimes sleep is totally appropriate. But there is a sleep of lethargy and aimlessness. We can be extremely busy but very lazy at the same time. You can be on a shop that's going nowhere. The sluggard rarely says no. He just makes little decisions that robs him of obedience. A sluggard is hinged to his bed. Christians get spiritually depressed because they don't get control. We must press through. While Jonah was asleep he failed the world. Things don't stay the same. You cant afford to be asleep because you don't know when a storm is coming. Suddenly the world is in a storm, its time for the church to be awake. We need to show the world God has the answers. The church is the answer to the world. We are the salt of the earth.

Jonah Found Himself  As the storm breaks, and people are worried, Jonah says "its all about me". He uses the technical language "I fear the Lord" but the reason he was there was because he didn't! But suddenly he was beginning to again. He realized he had missed the boat. He suddenly woke up to the fact that he could have been a blessing. The rest became very afraid. That is revival. Revival happens that way. People who know God begin to express fear of God. People start to pray, and blessing can go right around the world. When the world sees that the church really fears God they begin to take God seriously. Jonah says just throw me away to save you. For the first time he begins to care about other people. Hes not yet a whole man. But he is saying I want to get back into line with God and I don't want you suffering because of my disobedience. Jesus looked on our plight and said I unreservedly give myself for you. Jonah 2 could be Jesus' prayer. Jesus has paid a price so that even when we have messed up we can be reinstated. We must take seriously what God has told us to do. We must give up our right to take our own decisions. God wants an obedience that is rooted in faith.

This morning I again plan on sharing only a short summary of Dave Stroud's talk.  He spoke about how we are called to be salt and light in the world.

Dave begun by speaking about the difference between Plato's view of the physical body and realm and the Christian one.  He told us not to think of our eternal state in heaven as a place of disembodied spirits hanging around.  Our bodies are part of God's creation, and there is no divide between the spiritual and physical, rather all is spiritual

We are the salt of the earth.  We are meant to be engaged with the world serving it.  We are to affect every aspect of the world.  We should care for all of the environment.  We should care about poverty in the developing world.  We are not called to live in the modern equivalent of monastic communities.

If the world has gone off, could it not be because something has happened to the salt.  If we look at the films and popular culture we will understand what society is saying.    Art is hopeless.  The news tells us of the increase in violence on our streets.  Apparently murders by children has tripled in the last few years.  4000 five year olds were excluded from school last year because they couldn't be controlled.  A test of any society is how it cares for its weakest.  

Jesus is the Light of the world, so we are the light too.  In darkness things happen that wouldn't happen in the light.  He challenged us to get connected with people who don't know Jesus and spend significant amounts of time with them.  If we open up our lives to others, they will open up their lives to God.

Jesus was committed to caring for the poor.  We all need to be part of caring for the poor. If we are followers of Christ we will care for the needy.  We must be known not just for our clear declarations on moral issues, but for the love and mercy we exude.  

We are also to be involved in transforming the culture in which we live as well as building churches.  Some will have a mission and call to get stuck into an influential job and become salt and light where you are. This could include making movies that promote godliness for example. 

He ended by challenging us that if we are to be light, then the light of Jesus must shine into us and make us pure and free of worry and aggravation, wrong thinking. 

UPDATE #2
It turns out that unbeknownst to this ignorant Brit, there are TWO Rochesters in the USA. One is Rochester, New York—the 94th largest city in the USA. However, as of now, no Newfrontiers church has been planted in Rochester, New York. The other city of Rochester is located in New Hampshire and while it is NOT the 94th largest city, a thriving Newfrontiers church IS located there, as can be seen by the pictures below.

UPDATE #1
The 94th largest city in the USA is Rochester, New York. In an elementary school boy error, I'm afraid I misread my source of information and convinced myself that there was a Newfrontiers church located there. I was wrong. But it seems a bit unkind to remove all mention from my site of Christ the King Church, Rochester, New Hampshire, in spite of the fact that it's not among the top 100 US cities.

So, there it is. I have finished scouring the list of 100 top US cities for locations where Newfrontiers has planted a church. I have enjoyed looking at the websites of several of the various church plants in the USA. It makes me realize that the challenge of planting reformed charismatic churches across America is a vast one. I thank God that there are other groups doing this, but hope and pray that my brothers across the water in Newfrontiers churches will achieve their goal of planting churches in the 100 largest cities. I trust that I will be able to report the beginnings of churches in many more of these cities as the months and years go on.

London is by far the largest city in the UK, and depending on how you define a city, it's either the largest or second largest in the EU. In keeping with how I've been listing churches in America's biggest cities, I thought I'd share today a list of Newfrontiers churches that have their meeting places within the greater London area.

If you are looking for a reformed charismatic church in London, you have a reasonable choice, and there are others in addition to the Newfrontiers network. With a population of 8 million people, however, we still have a lot of work to do in planting more churches and growing large churches across London.

NORTH OF THE RIVER
Jubilee Church, North London
ChristChurch, Central London
Revelation Church, Camden
Church for the City - East End
Kings Church, Harrow
South Harrow Christian Fellowship
Grace Church, Goodmayes
Kings Church, Ilford
Kings Church, Upminster
King's Church, Kingston
North West Church, Mill Hill
Crown Church, Hillingdon
Church of Christ the King, Watford

SOUTH OF THE RIVER
City Hope Church, Bermonsey
Bexleyheath Community Church
Downham Way Family Church, Bromley
Beacon Church, Dulwich
Beulah Family Church, Thornton Heath
Church of Christ the King, Plumstead
Kings Church, Catford
Emmanuel Church, Greenwich
Penge Family Church
New Community Church, Sidcup
Putney Community Church
Queens Road Church, Wimbledon
Shaftesbury Christian Centre, Battersea
Southfields Baptist Church
Sutton Family Church

My friend, P-J Smyth, is a popular Newfrontiers speaker, and the leader of GodFirst Church Johannesburg. He has recently overseen a rather nice-looking update to his church's website. A number of sermon mp3's and a range of e-books are all available. P-J is a punchy, impactful, and clear communicator. I recommend his material highly. As just one example, the following quote comes from a book on the Bible, available free on his site, entitled The Sword.

"The Word will bring you faith. Romans 10:17 makes this one crystal clear. Do you want that kind of faith that pleases God, causes the impossible to become the possible, moves mountains, destroys satanic strongholds, and violently advances the kingdom of God? It comes from hearing and hearing and hearing and hearing the things that God has to say!

You can have faith in your feelings, in which case your feelings will govern your life. You can have faith in your fears, and so be paralyzed into inactivity. You can have faith in others, and often be disappointed. Or you can have faith in God’s Word, and learn that He is utterly trustworthy in every situation. Smith-Wigglesworth said, “Except the word of God, everything else is sand. It’ll stand forever, it’s settled in heaven, not one jot or tittle will fail, it can’t be broken or improved upon, and those who believe in it shall be like Mount Zion that cannot be moved.”

— P-J Smyth, The Sword

If you live in or near Johannesburg in South Africa, you should consider at least a visit to this church which, from what I hear, is a vibrant multicultural place where Jesus is worshiped as Lord and the Word of God is honored. What more could you ask for?

Today I want to highlight Jubilee Church, St Louis which is the home of John Lanferman, the leader of Newfrontiers USA. This is found in St Louis, which is the 52nd largest USA city. The church has two locations and is something of a beacon church, running a church planting training school.

I have been posting links to the churches being planted by Newfrontiers in the top 100 cities of America. Coming in at 34 is the city of Atlanta, with a church plant being led by Carl Herrington.

The Atlanta church plant is called Jubilee Church Atlanta, and mp3s are available to download on their website. This church is already generating some interest in its regional area, so I expect we may see some more plants in the vicinity in the not-too-distant future.

I have been working through the top 100 cities in the USA, highlighting those cities where Newfrontiers is already working.

Today, I want to highlight a church which meets in the Nashville area, which is the 29th largest city in America. Why not go and visit the website for Lifehouse Church, Nashville/Franklin, Tennessee?

Many readers of my blog will know of Lou Fellingham, and some will have been praying for the family situation she has been facing lately. Her mother, only 56, died yesterday.

The family would like people who knew her to be made aware of the fact that there will be a celebration service for her on Saturday, October 18th, at Jubilee Community Centre, Charlwood Road, East Grinstead, RH19 2HL with a 4 o'clock start. All are welcome. There will be tea, coffee, and cake afterwards. Should you wish to bring a cake, please do.

Please join me in praying for Lou and the whole family at this time. We grieve, but not in the same way as those who have no hope.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

In 2009 Newfrontiers is starting a Belfast Church — the eleventh largest city in the UK. The church plant website went live recently, and they have already opened a Belfast Church plant Facebook group.

The emerging vision for the church plant is:

1. To see a Christ-centered church planted in Belfast city, on a mission seeking a transformed city.
   
   
2. To be a church that reflects the growing diversity of Belfast.
   
   
3. To see multiple thriving congregations established across Belfast.
   
   
4. To plant churches in all five cities in Northern Ireland.
   
   
5. To plant churches in every major town in Northern Ireland.
   
   
6. To raise up indigenous leaders and church planters.

David Capener would love to hear from you if you are interested in being part of the Belfast plant or know of anyone who might be. The growing team would also really value your prayers.

Please pray for . . .

• More to gather with a heart for Belfast.
  
• House sales!
  
• For our meetings with local church leaders from across the community.
  
• Worship leaders.
  
• The favor of the city especially among the business community.
  
• Musicians with a heart for church planting.
  
• Those with a heart for church planting to gather with a vision to plant out across NI.
  
• A student worker.
  
• Those moving to Belfast who are looking for work.

Today I want to highlight another of the Newfrontiers USA churches that are being planted in the top 100 cities in the United States.

From a geographical perspective, the cities of Seattle and Tacoma almost look as if they make up one city. As a result, Tacoma is located in the metropolitan area where Mark Driscoll is working so vigorously. A very prophetic guy named Sam Poe is one of the leaders there, and the church is known as New Community Church, Tacoma.

This Sunday, my friend and the main leader of Jubilee Church, London, Tope Koleoso, will be preaching at the Chicago Newfrontiers church plant. Jubilee is a rapidly growing multi-racial church which meets in a cinema.

If you are in the Chicago area, this will be a unique opportunity to hear this dynamic preacher in a more intimate environment.

The evening begins with a dinner at 5.30 p.m. at 5959 North Sheridan Road, Chicago, IL 60660

For more information, contact info@realfusion.org for more details or call FUSION at (847) 547 2698.

Today I want to highlight two churches in Boston—the 23rd largest city in the USA.

The first of these is Abundant Grace Church, Boston. The second is Fenway Church, Boston, which is a new church plant that is due to have its first service on October 5th in Kilmarnock Street.

From time to time I plan on highlighting other Newfrontiers churches or plants that are based in the top 100 cities in the USA.

UPDATE The Fenway Church plant has issued the following press release.

New Church Opens at Nightclub

Forget the organs; forget the pews; forget everything you have ever thought about church and come check out a new take on the Christian Church… at a club.

Fenway Church is a community of believers in Jesus who are working together to form a dynamic, relevant church in the Fenway-Kenmore neighborhood of Boston. Unlike most Christian churches, Fenway Church has decided to meet in a club rather than a traditional church building to demonstrate the life of Jesus in action. Contrary to popular belief, Jesus spent his life on earth not establishing a closed church community, but rather he went from place to place meeting and serving people in their own environments. The first Sunday service of Fenway Church will be on October 5^th at 1:00 pm at 69 Kilmarnock Street, a new restaurant/bar/club ironically named "Church."

There is free parking in the back of the building. Check out www.fenwaychurch.org for more information.

Terry Virgo has posted on his blog some further reflections on what Mark Driscoll's visit to Brighton has led to. Go and read the whole thing, but here is an exerpt:

His disarming way and extraordinary spiritual authority came to us at a crucial time in our growth and development. He stimulated and challenged us about the pace of growth amongst us and it was so healthy to get a spiritual 'kick up the backside' from a guy who himself is planting churches at a phenomenal rate as well as building a great church in Seattle. . . .

His expectation for a church to duplicate meetings, and even to multiply the sites of meetings with the aid of video links, was also provocative and worth consideration, especially in some of our larger cities.

His challenge for us to make public a clear doctrinal commitment will also be considered. We had already thought it was time for us to re-state and circulate our vision and values in a way that is easily comprehensible and genuinely helpful. We shall be following this up.

Our training programmes will be more focussed on church planting preparation as a direct result of his challenge. We realise that we are working hard on developing the skills of pastors but we need to be more intentional about training up church planters. This will inevitably take some time.

He highlighted areas where we may be slowing down and where some of our values might hinder growth. On reflection we have considered how we call ourselves a 'family' of churches together on a mission. God spoke to us about being together some years ago when John Groves had an extraordinary vision of a herd of elephants charging into new territory, including the phrase 'you can accomplish more together than apart'.

In adding the word 'family' we may have added a slightly cosy perspective with added 'family values.' We will be considering the implications and, though we are keen to continue our emphasis on strong relationships, we realise that international growth can challenge 'family' attitudes.

Multiplied apostolic spheres must develop across the nations which are held together by strong ties of love, trust and loyalty, but we must beware of any nostalgia hindering our ability to follow the Lord in wholehearted and radical advance. Read more . . .

One of the passions of this blog is to do everything I can to promote the growth of reformed charismatic churches. I have spoken already about the drive to plant Newfrontiers churches in the top 100 cities of America, and highlighted a plant in Chicago.

Today, in an update to news discussed during the prayer meeting in Brighton, I can report that two European church plants now have websites — Emmanuel Church, Greenwich and the Amsterdam church plant. If you are interested in joining either of these churches, they are both being led by friends of mine who I highly commend.

These new churches are part of a new drive to see international churches planted in the major cities of Europe. Due to the EU, there are now many people who move between the main cities of our countries for work. Many of them do not speak the language of their host country very well at all. Most speak English, so these English-speaking churches will be a quick way for Newfrontiers to expand into many areas of the European continent, although obviously always with a view to also blessing the native populations of these great cities. Please pray for this exciting drive as many of the European nations have even fewer evangelical churches than the UK.

UPDATE
This was up for less than an hour before I received three responses! The list of the nations can be found on the Stoneliegh 2001 CD, The Fathers Embrace, which is available on iTunes, at least in the UK. I would be interested to know if that URL works in the USA as well.

ORIGINAL POST
I received this e-mail recently, the plea for which I definitely echo . . .

I enjoy reading your website and am one of those who remember very clearly the message by C. J. Mahaney at the Downs Bible Week on the holiness of God and the ark of the covenant. Like you, it made a great impact on me and my husband.

Another such moment for us was when Terry and Wendy Virgo read out the names of all the nations in the world at a Stoneleigh Bible Week with the violin playing in the background. I am trying to find a copy of this. Was it ever on a Stoneleigh CD? We seem to have them all except the last one. Is it possible to find a copy of Terry and Wendy reading the countries? Do you know what year it was?

I would be very grateful if you could send out a plea to find it for us.

The Newfrontiers Youth Conference, New Day has posted its audio sermons online for free. Lots of great things happened during the week from what I heard, so the messages are no doubt well worth a listen.

Also, a great introduction to the values of this group of churches can be found in the audio from one of the recent Newfrontiers USA conferences.

I concluded my interview with Dave Stroud by asking him about the church he leads in London. You can download the mp3 of the entire interview or listen to the last part here:

I continue this interview by asking about how someone who believes God is speaking to them about church planting can begin to prepare themselves within Newfrontiers.

No. 3 in the list of top 100 US cities being targeted by Newfrontiers is Chicago. I got a facebook message this week asking me if I knew of a Church there for a student visiting. Incidentally, do feel free to be my friend, join my blog network or even share and comment on my posts over at facebook

I was thrilled to be able to find that there is a newfrontiers church in Chicago. Not just any church either, judging by the website but one that has a clear vision of what they are trying to do judging by the following extract from their website which turned my head.

Yes, we're unashamedly Christian but don't freak out and click for something else. Let us tell you our story.

We're a community of everyday people who want to explore what it means to be a Christ follower in our everyday lives. We're real. Our faith is real. Our lives are gritty. We don't have all the answers but we're not afraid to work it out together - rooted in God's word. that's what it's all about!

We're a community, a part of the global village. we're talking deep dish pizza, hummus and pita breads, home baked lasagna, beans and burritos, hot dawgs and sauce. We eat Sunday dinner together as often as we can. We email and call each other during the week to stay in touch and when things aren't crazy busy we even hook up for a cup of coffee. We celebrate birthdays, go bowling, prepare meals for people in need, play Scrabble, watch movies, housesit, baby-sit, pack boxes when someone's moving house, and share our lives together. It's tough building community in the city but we believe Christianity is all about it.

We don't believe in fairy tales. We believe Jesus Christ really lived and walked this earth and chose to die for our sins. That's right, we see ourselves as sinners in need of his grace. We're talking repentance, hope, freedom, healing, grace, joy, truth, and most importantly love. So real. So refreshing.

We launched Fusion in East Rogers Park, Chicago, Il, in February 2006 but people travel from all over Chicagoland to be a part of our urban family - and friends and family visit us from different nations too. Sure, we're small. We're new. We're learning. We make mistakes. We say we're sorry. We reach out. We don't have a target market, anyone is welcome. We don't have all the answers. We're everyday people. And we're plugged into Newfrontiers, a family of more than 500 churches in over 50 nations across the globe.

We come just as we are - that's what Jesus is all about. We are unafraid to challenge stuff and, we live out our lives based on God's word. Yes, we believe its the inspired word of God. We don't pretend! We don't tell you what you want to hear. We are Christ followers and Christ seekers - together, on a mission. Everyday people exploring the true essence of Christianity and what it means in our everyday lives to be a Christ follower. READ MORE from this Chicago church.

This autumn a Worship School will be taking place on the south coast of England. Home of some well-known Christian worship leaders such as Stuart Townend, Phatfish, Paul Oakley, and Simon Brading, among others, Church of Christ the King is something of a worship center. This autumn, if you want to learn more about leading worship or playing in a worship band, why not sign up to attend training sessions in which they will all be sharing.

You can also join a Facebook group for worship leaders from around the world where you will be able to discuss things together as a group.

I found a way of embedding a flikr slide show here on the blog. I hope you like these photos from Driscoll's London trip.


Created with Admarket's flickrSLiDR.

This is the second and final part of my interview with Scott Thomas of the Acts 29 Network. You can download the audio of whole interview or watch the second part below. Part 1 can be seen here.

Scott speaks about how Acts 29 aims to help potential church planters.

The majority of the MP3s from Together On A Mission are now available direct from the Newfrontiers Resources page, or from the following summary posts I wrote during the week.

Session Summaries

• TOAM08 - Stephen Van Rhyn - Prevailing Under Pressure (Daniel)
• TOAM08 - Mark Driscoll: Doctrine of the Holy Spirit in Luke and Acts
• TOAM08 - Terry Virgo on Stephen (Acts 6-7)
• TOAM08 - David Stroud on 1 Samuel 14
• TOAM08 - Apostles and Prophets Together on a Mission
• TOAM08 - Mark Driscoll on the Missional Church
• TOAM08 - Mark Driscoll's Perspective On Newfrontiers
• TOAM08 - David Devenish - A Call to the Nations (Jeremiah 1)
• TOAM08 - Keith Hazell - Prophets and Prophets Together: A Fuller Picture
• TOAM08 - What Happens Between The Sessions
• TOAM08 - P-J Smyth on the Army of God (1 Chronicles 11-12)
• TOAM08 - Mark Driscoll on Missional Movements (Acts 1)
• TOAM08 – JOIN A CHURCH PLANT in a European City - Prayer Evening Report
• TOAM08 - Sam Poe & Phil Wilthew - Pastors and Prophets Building Together
• TOAM08 - Terry Virgo on Philip (Acts 8)

Other Posts About Together On A Mission

• Terry Virgo Appraises Mark Driscoll's Trip

• VIDEO INTERVIEW - Mark Driscoll, Part 1 - Prophecy and Newfrontiers
• VIDEO INTERVIEW - Mark Driscoll, Part 2 - A Prophecy For Newfrontiers and Worship
• VIDEO INTERVIEW - Mark Driscoll, Part 3 - Impressions of the UK
• VIDEO INTERVIEW - Mark Driscoll, Part 4 - Multiculturalism and Missi

• Together On A Mission 2008 - The Newfrontiers Conference

In case the title of this post completely mystifys you and you have not heard of this group of Christians, I have written previously about them in “What is a Reformed Charismatic?”

The phrase “1,000 reformed charismatic churches” has been going around in my head on and off for awhile now. Because several different applications of that number are running through my mind, I thought I’d share each of them with you here.

The first thought I had was simply this: although often considered to be a small minority, the number of reformed charismatics is increasing. I therefore wondered if there are now 1,000 reformed charismatic churches around the world? I suspect there must be. According to my interview with Terry Virgo, Newfrontiers is now nearing 600 churches, so surely there must be at least 1,000 if you add to that Sovereign Grace Ministries, Acts 29, and of course, other individual churches and networks, some of which, no doubt, I have not yet even heard about. (Incidentally, I'd particularly like to hear about any of you out there who go to a reformed charismatic church that isn't part of one of the three groups I just mentioned—drop me an e-mail at adrian.warnock@gmail.com.)

We probably can agree that there must be at least 1,000 reformed charismatic churches in the world. But are there 1,000 reformed charismatic churches in any individual country in the world? I doubt it very much. I am certain we don't have 1,000 such churches here in there UK. I would be very surprised indeed if there were that number in the USA.

But why do I mention 1,000 reformed charismatic churches when it comes to an individual country like the USA or the UK? In the UK, Newfrontiers now has 220 churches, which because we have 60 million people, works out to one church per 270,000 people. So, along with other groups, we have made some small impact, although surely there is still much work for us to do, even in the UK. But here is where it gets interesting. A church for every 270,000 people in the USA would work out to aproximately 1,000 churches. So I guess we have still further to go in America. I suspect, however, that there are many reformed charismatic churches in the USA which are not part of any network with which I’m familiar.

But the number 1,000 is featured in other ways as well. The Acts 29 Network's audacious goal is to plant 1,000 churches themselves over twenty years. I fully expect them to reach that goal given their current rate of growth. Also, a number of years ago a prophetic word led Newfrontiers in the UK to dare to believe God for 1,000 churches in our own nation. Within Newfrontiers meetings we often hear the challenging goal for church planting and growing large churches — “1,000 churches and churches of 1,000 people.”

Do we need lots of reformed charismatic churches? I believe we do. Firstly, we need reformed charismatic churches to show Christians that there really is a third option between arid intellectualism and brainless experiential showmanship. It’s not that the caricatures we tend to make of both cessationists and charismatics are entirely accurate; it’s just that churches that are unashamedly both reformed and charismatic can give confidence to others to make that plunge, or at least ensure they do not meet the caricature defining their end of the spectrum. I believe that it is a good thing to have different churches in any given town that can provoke each other and learn from one another.

But I also believe that reformed charismatic churches are often uniquely placed to become genuinely missional churches that can reach out and grow largely by salvation. We live in a culture that has, for the most part, turned its back on traditional church. Why shouldn’t we offer the world a church whose methods, music, style, and experience are totally up-to-date, but where the message remains old-fashioned and traditional in the sense of being solidly biblical?

One man with a vision to plant churches that will affect thousands of people is John Lanferman. He speaks of having on his laptop a list of the top 100 cities of the USA where 87 per cent of the people live. The cry of his heart is that 100 reproducing missional reformed charismatic churches be planted by Newfrontiers USA in those cities. Here's what he said about it in an interview with me. I had asked him what a missional church was:

“A church that understands that it exists for the express purpose of carrying the gospel to the next door neighbor, to the person in the next block, to the person in the next city, state, and nation, and they exist for the purpose of being carriers of the gospel. So they are involved, not only in proclamation, but they are involved in changing the whole culture of a community. They would be people who would be involved in cross-cultural evangelism. They would be people who would be involved in changing the social justice—be involved in that ministry to the poor—so they have a desire to see the whole community that they are involved with, the towns they are involved with, changed and made into a kingdom community. It’s people who understand, “We do not exist for ourselves, but we exist for them.” So the way we spend our money, the way we staff our churches, the way our churches feel, the way they operate, have that outward appeal. And it’s a God-centered approach to humanity rather than an inward, “What about me and my needs?” It’s a man-centered approach . . . If we can get outstanding churches in each of these 100 large cities, and out from that, begin to reproduce ourselves—because I’m fanatical on reproducing churches. We must not just plant churches, but we [want to] see churches that view themselves as reproducing churches multiply themselves, raise up leaders, give themselves away, spread out in the communities and the nations beyond."

— John Lanferman

Here is a list of those 100 cities. With the new sense of urgency in our movement following the Brighton conference, you could be finding a reformed charismatic church starting near you sooner than you think if you live in one of them. I would be only too happy to pass e-mails on to the relevant people if YOU live in one of these cities and would like to play a part in seeing this vision come to fruition. Attending one of our USA conferences would be a good first step.
Please join me in mentioning each of these cities before the Lord in prayer as you finish reading this post. May each of them soon have a reformed charismatic church. Actually, most of them will need more than one church given their size. This table shows three columns—the city, its state, and the population. In the last column, I will also gradually add links to Newfrontiers churches and church plants in these cities:

1	New York	New York	&0000000008250567.0000008,250,567
2	Los Angeles	California	&0000000003849378.0000003,849,378
3	Chicago	Illinois	&0000000002833321.0000002,833,321 Fusion Church, Chicago
4	Houston	Texas	&0000000002144491.0000002,144,491
5	Phoenix	Arizona	&0000000001512986.0000001,512,986
6	Philadelphia	Pennsylvania	&0000000001448394.0000001,448,394
7	San Antonio	Texas	&0000000001296682.0000001,296,682
8	San Diego	California	&0000000001256951.0000001,256,951
9	Dallas	Texas	&0000000001232940.0000001,232,940
10	San Jose	California	&0000000000929936.000000929,936
11	Detroit	Michigan	&0000000000918849.000000918,849
12	Jacksonville	Florida	&0000000000794555.000000794,555
13	Indianapolis	Indiana	&0000000000785597.000000785,597
14	San Francisco	California	&0000000000744041.000000744,041
15	Columbus	Ohio	&0000000000733203.000000733,203
16	Austin	Texas	&0000000000709893.000000709,893
17	Memphis	Tennessee	&0000000000670902.000000670,902
18	Fort Worth	Texas	&0000000000653320.000000653,320
19	Baltimore	Maryland	&0000000000640961.000000640,961
20	Charlotte	North Carolina	&0000000000630478.000000630,478
21	El Paso	Texas	&0000000000609415.000000609,415
22	Milwaukee	Wisconsin	&0000000000602782.000000602,782
23	Boston	Massachusetts	&0000000000590763.000000590,763 Abundant Church and Fenway Church
24	Seattle	Washington	&0000000000582454.000000582,454
25	Washington	District of Columbia	&0000000000581530.000000581,530
26	Denver	Colorado	&0000000000566974.000000566,974
27	Louisville	Kentucky	&0000000000554496.000000554,496
28	Las Vegas	Nevada	&0000000000552539.000000552,539
29	Nashville	Tennessee	&0000000000552120.000000552,120
30	Oklahoma City	Oklahoma	&0000000000537734.000000537,734
31	Portland	Oregon	&0000000000537081.000000537,081
32	Tucson	Arizona	&0000000000518956.000000518,956
33	Albuquerque	New Mexico	&0000000000504949.000000504,949
34	Atlanta	Georgia	&0000000000486411.000000486,411
35	Long Beach	California	&0000000000472494.000000472,494
36	Fresno	California	&0000000000466714.000000466,714
37	Sacramento	California	&0000000000453781.000000453,781
38	Mesa	Arizona	&0000000000447541.000000447,541
39	Kansas City	Missouri	&0000000000447306.000000447,306
40	Cleveland	Ohio	&0000000000444323.000000444,323
41	Virginia Beach	Virginia	&0000000000435619.000000435,619
42	Omaha	Nebraska	&0000000000427872.000000427,872
43	Miami	Florida	&0000000000404048.000000404,048
44	Oakland	California	&0000000000397067.000000397,067
45	Tulsa	Oklahoma	&0000000000382872.000000382,872
46	Honolulu	Hawaii	&0000000000377357.000000377,357
47	Minneapolis	Minnesota	&0000000000372833.000000372,833
48	Colorado Springs	Colorado	&0000000000372437.000000372,437
49	Arlington	Texas	&0000000000367197.000000367,197
50	Wichita	Kansas	&0000000000357698.000000357,698
51	Raleigh	North Carolina	&0000000000356321.000000356,321
52	St. Louis	Missouri	&0000000000353837.000000353,837
53	Santa Ana	California	&0000000000340024.000000340,024
54	Anaheim	California	&0000000000334425.000000334,425
55	Tampa	Florida	&0000000000332888.000000332,888
56	Cincinnati	Ohio	&0000000000332252.000000332,252
57	Pittsburgh	Pennsylvania	&0000000000312819.000000312,819
58	Bakersfield	California	&0000000000308392.000000308,392
59	Aurora	Colorado	&0000000000303582.000000303,582
60	Toledo	Ohio	&0000000000298446.000000298,446
61	Riverside	California	&0000000000293761.000000293,761
62	Stockton	California	&0000000000290141.000000290,141
63	Corpus Christi	Texas	&0000000000285267.000000285,267
64	Newark	New Jersey	&0000000000281402.000000281,402
65	Anchorage	Alaska	&0000000000278700.000000278,700
66	Buffalo	New York	&0000000000276059.000000276,059
67	St. Paul	Minnesota	&0000000000273535.000000273,535
68	Lexington	Kentucky	&0000000000270789.000000270,789
69	Plano	Texas	&0000000000255009.000000255,009
70	Fort Wayne	Indiana	&0000000000248637.000000248,637
71	St. Petersburg	Florida	&0000000000248098.000000248,098
72	Glendale	Arizona	&0000000000246531.000000246,531
73	Jersey City	New Jersey	&0000000000241789.000000241,789
74	Lincoln	Nebraska	&0000000000241167.000000241,167
75	Henderson	Nevada	&0000000000240614.000000240,614
76	Chandler	Arizona	&0000000000240595.000000240,595
77	Norfolk	Virginia	&0000000000238832.000000238,832
78	Greensboro	North Carolina	&0000000000236865.000000236,865
79	Scottsdale	Arizona	&0000000000231127.000000231,127
80	Baton Rouge	Louisiana	&0000000000229553.000000229,553
81	Birmingham	Alabama	&0000000000229424.000000229,424
82	Madison	Wisconsin	&0000000000223389.000000223,389
83	New Orleans	Louisiana	&0000000000223388.000000223,388
84	Chesapeake	Virginia	&0000000000220560.000000220,560
85	Orlando	Florida	&0000000000220186.000000220,186
86	Garland	Texas	&0000000000217963.000000217,963
87	Hialeah	Florida	&0000000000217141.000000217,141
88	Laredo	Texas	&0000000000215484.000000215,484
89	Chula Vista	California	&0000000000212756.000000212,756
90	Lubbock	Texas	&0000000000212169.000000212,169
91	Reno	Nevada	&0000000000210255.000000210,255
92	Akron	Ohio	&0000000000209704.000000209,704
93	Durham	North Carolina	&0000000000209009.000000209,009
94	Rochester	New York	&0000000000208123.000000208,123
95	Modesto	California	&0000000000205721.000000205,721
96	Montgomery	Alabama	&0000000000201998.000000201,998
97	Fremont	California	&0000000000201691.000000201,691
98	Shreveport	Louisiana	&0000000000200199.000000200,199
99	Arlington	Virginia	&0000000000199776.000000199,776
100	Glendale	California	&0000000000199463.000000199,463

Source:
Wikipedia—List of United States Cities by Population

Terry Virgo has blogged about the recent Mark Driscoll visit. You really should go read the whole thing, but here is an excerpt:

Pettiness and small-mindedness don’t stand a chance when he cuts loose with his burning desire to see Christ glorified in our generation. His radical priorities and decision-making are deeply rooted in a passion to confront our contemporaries with gospel truth.

Being convinced of the authority of Scripture and the sovereignty of God, his driven urgency does not yield to a pragmatism that cuts corners. Big Biblical principles shape his thinking and his practice.

Few can be ahead of him in his radical application of modern means of communication. Literally millions of downloads of his preaching are being made all around the world and his commitment to multi-campus church speaks of a brilliant entrepreneurial style.

His humour, often expressed in hilarious one-liners, makes him so fascinating to listen to. One example: ‘A guy who won’t take responsibility is not really a man, he’s just a boy who shaves.’

Biting relevance also characterises him, whether he is challenging young people about moral purity or confronting a movement about its need to face the future not with nostalgia but with courage and decisiveness. He really gets under your skin! He could have simply given us a few good sermons, but he certainly didn’t settle for that!"

Read More . . .

Today I conclude my interview with Mark Driscoll. You can download the audio of the whole interview and watch the final segment below. The three previous segments can be viewed at the following pages:

• Video Interview - Mark Driscoll, Part 1 - Prophecy and Newfrontiers
  
  
• Video Interview - Mark Driscoll, Part 2 - A Prophecy for Newfrontiers and Worship
  
  
• Video Interview - Mark Driscoll, Part 3 - Impressions of the UK

During the course of this interview, Driscoll is very warm about Newfrontiers. If you are interested in finding out more about Newfrontiers, why not attend one of the Newfrontiers events in the USA, the UK, or other countries or visit the Newfrontiers website, or Terry Virgo's Blog.

Mark Driscoll also has a blog, hosted at The Resurgence, where you can find out more, as well as the Acts 29 Network and Mars Hill Church.

I continue my interview talking about Driscoll's impressions of the UK.

I continue my interview with Mark Driscoll by talking about his prophecy for Newfrontiers and his view of our worship.

I have not yet had a chance to finalize my notes from the Dwell Conference, so I thought I'd begin sharing the video content I have from my time in Brighton. Keep coming back for more interviews, and also for the notes still outstanding.

I begin my interview with Mark Driscoll by talking about his impressions of Newfrontiers and his view of prophecy.

UPDATE - At the moment, it seems the only way to download this message is to subscribe to the CCK podcast via iTunes. I hope this will be fixed soon.

Mark Driscoll returned to Brighton on Sunday evening and preached on Jeremiah 29 again.

As it was a young, mostly single congregation, he really went for it, especially strongly emphazising the material aimed at young men. If you know a single guy, dare him to download the sermon or listen to it online here:

This is the final set of notes I will post. But come back over the next week or two for a series of video interviews, and over this weekend for some notes from other talks Driscoll will be giving around London. As mp3s are posted, we will also be adding download links to the individual summary pages, but you can also check online or subscribe to the podcast.

The final main session of the Brighton Leaders' Conference was taken by Terry Virgo. More posts from this conference can be found on my TOAM08 label page. You can download the mp3 of Terry's talk or listen to it right here:


Terry began by thanking us for the great personal affection of which he was very aware yesterday. He then read almost the whole of this interesting chapter in Acts 8 on the character of Philip, the only named evangelist in the New Testament.

Both Stephen and Philip are introduced as men who are playing their part in a rapidly growing church. Terry described Stephen in his first talk on Tuesday. Today he completes this mini-series with a look at Philip.

There seems to be two halves to the description of Philip. In the first half he is in a domestic scene looking after the needs of widows. Foundations must be built into lives before they can have a public ministry.

This evangelist wasn't a loner with a ministry. He was known and loved in a local church. He wasn't isolated. He wasn't someone who just hadn't fit in so decides to leave the church to "go and do his evangelism thing." Rather notice what is said about him. He's selected by the church. He has a good reputation. When the church wants someone reliable, his name comes up. He was recognized for being “full of the Holy Spirit” when thousands were full of the Holy Spirit. He somehow stood out in that way, suggesting, incidentally, that there are degrees of being full of the Spirit. He was gifted, but he didn't push for his gift; he served, took his place so others could get on with their ministry. He didn't demand to be recognized. He was willing to take a lower profile, to put God first.

Later on, he goes and preaches. The Apostles come and he doesn't tell them to “get out of here,” he receives them. They came to bring the Spirit's fullness and to remove someone who was getting too much profile. In our family life, we should teach our kids to be team players. Don't insist on your own way. Don't just “let them do their own thing.” Prepare them for the kingdom. Ephesians 4 says that the gifts are given to equip the saints so that they may become mature. A mature man looks like Jesus — someone who knows he has come from God and is going to God, and yet he washes his disciples' feet!

Through love become one another’s slaves. Don't take the attitude, “I'm not appreciated here so I'll go somewhere else where I am appreciated.” Be a team player. His household was good. His daughters later are described as having prophesied regularly. [Incidentally, as a side note apart from what Terry actually said, it struck me once again as I was listening that there is no record of these daughter's prophecies being viewed as Scripture, and they are not recorded in the Bible. It still surprises me that some people persist in seeing all prophecy as equivalent to Scripture.]

Back to Terry. These daughters were not rebellious, but full of the Spirit. They were respected. They had been taught to listen to him. Must have been good relationships and an honoring of women. Philip had an exemplary home. It's such a joy to have children of whom you can be proud.

Suddenly things change. Stephen is martyred. Philip moves into his second half. God in his sovereignty scatters the believers that the world may hear the gospel. Philip is alive to the opportunity. He knows God's will. He follows the prompting of the Spirit. He is gospel intoxicated, not waiting for an official strategy. He goes with what God is doing. He is willing to move. He shares and takes every opportunity to speak. Philip heralded the good news. He preached Christ. What Christ did he preach? Not just enough to make vague statements. What kind of Christ should we present?

A Jesus rooted in Old Testament revelation.
The eunuch was reading Isaiah 53, which was, of course, something of a gift. Tim Keller says people are reacting to abstract theologizing that's not rooted in the truth. We need to be assured of the message we have. This passage is classic and about the atonement. We must focus there, we must preach the cross. Don't abandon that as our central theme. The cross didn't need much description in those days, everyone knew what it was like. These days we need to explain it. We must break through that film that comes on people. We should publicly placard Christ crucified. God's fury against sin was dealt with. We must feel it strongly. Let the cross captivate our hearts.

A Jesus with the good news of the kingdom of God. Philip was speaking of a phenomenal event. Jesus is the Messiah, the one God sent. He is raised and seated on high ruling and reigning. They glory in the resurrection. They proclaim that the tomb was empty. It's not just a case of a man whose teachings were so great that "the dream lives on." His death may have looked as if he were a fraud, as if it's the end, without the resurrection. But he’s not only alive, he's reigning. He is the Son of God with power.

A Jesus who had not lost his power to heal.
Philip is preaching and we see amazing things happen. The crowds heard it and saw it. These two men are provocations that our hearers also see the mighty implications of this Jesus being alive, being raised from the dead. Terry encouraged us to get behind Lex Loizides and the Front Edge program. Jesus is alive. Terry realized recently that he'd never taught on healing all these years. He was challenged to proclaim this and teach about this biblical Jesus. Speak about the Bible Jesus. Faith arises, hearts are stirred. “He preached Christ, not healings and miracles” say some commentaries. But it's amazing at the end, so they were baptized. But then the text doesn't mention baptism. He must have mentioned baptism then, just didn't record that he said that. So he proclaimed the sort of Christ who can heal the sick and oppressed of the devil. He presented him as he was in the Bible. People got healed because he told people what Jesus was like and what he did. He didn't present substitutionary atonement alone, but spoke of other things that Jesus did. In Galatians it is Jesus who supplies the Spirit to them and performs miracles among them. In the gospels he is either healing, coming from a healing, or about to do one. He is performing healings all the time. To preach Christ without even mentioning it is to preach an incomplete Christ. Jesus is still the same, yesterday and today and forever. Often uncomfortable with the teaching of those who go for healing. Well then it's time for US to preach it like it is and go for it!

A Jesus who expected a whole hearted response.
He baptized them. For joy he sells everything to get the pearl. We need to be absolutely besotted with Christ and the kingdom. It is vital.

A Jesus who could bring joy to the city.
Mark talked about the cities yesterday. Church planting is not just going up the road to the next town. We need to go for it. God wants our tragic cities with their multiple problems. The gospel must break out in our cities. Righteousness, peace, and joy in the Spirit.

A Jesus with the nations in mind.
The nations come to our cities. We must be on our toes. God wants to go to the ends of the earth.

When I write these notes, I do sometimes slip in things that strike me, so please understand they are never meant to be accurate transcripts. One thing strikes me about this passage, which Terry didn't have to say, speaking as he was to a room full of charismatics — healings and miracles are not enough. Baptisms and repentance are not enough. It is so striking that none of those things particularly impressed the magician, Simon. It is surely one of the most obvious demonstrations that the receiving of the Spirit is not meant to be a private intimate secret affair that even the recipient might not realize it has happened. No, the man who had seen all those miracles was only impressed when the Apostles came, laid hands on people, and they received the Spirit. We are not told here exactly what happened. But it was enough to make this man offer money that he could also impart the Spirit. If it had been us, many of us would instead have offered money to be able to heal people! Whatever your theology of the Spirit is, make sure you have room for a dramatic encounter that somehow is so visible and impressive in its results that it is more dramatic even than healings. We have to expect an anointing of the Spirit that is tangible and vivid and has dynamic results.

Back to Terry. We also see here the need to be like Philip, who was eager to bring in someone from outside. We need to be those who ask for people to come from the outside, to ask for help. We need people who are like Stephen and Philip, who can say with humility, “It's not mine, it doesn't belong to me. It's God's ministry.”

Philip is whisked off from the multitude to one guy. He has a passion for the crowd, but also for the individual. He is not caught up in the moment of high profile.

Terry then spoke of how some leaders get as far as they can go in their gift and they have to make room for someone else to take over and take the lead. That takes a humble heart. It's not failure. You can be fulfilled by doing this. Make room. I want you to move in and take over! That's a difficult thing for a pastor to say. We need to hear stories that people in the churches have stepped down. It takes a lot of grace to do that. Wives can be jealous for their husbands. Be flexible, be humble. Stephen lost his life, Philip laid down his life so others could play their role.

What comes first is the kingdom. It's about being besotted with Jesus. Having a passion for him. Let's talk about the WHOLE Jesus, the Bible Jesus. The one who began to work, and is still working today. It will be hard, it will be tough. But let's go for it! As we have as our motto on all of our literature at Jubilee Church, “It's all about Jesus.”

This morning I attended the last session of the Leaders’ training track, Prophetic Encounter, led by Sam Poe and Phil Wilthew. Today’s session looked at “Pastors and Prophets Together Building the Church.” I also was able to get to the two previous sessions, which I summarized at these pages:

• Apostles and Prophets Together on a Mission
  
  
• Prophets and Prophets Together Giving a Fuller Picture

Sam serves on John Lanferman’s apostolic team in the USA. He and his wife, Marlene, have travelled widely, serving churches in the USA and other nations. In recent years they have been particularly involved in working together with churches in Russia and the Ukraine. Sam and Marlene are presently based in Tacoma, Washington, where they are part of a new church. Sam is also serving other churches related to Newfrontiers in that region.

Phil is married to Carole, has two children, and is an elder in City Church, Newcastle, UK. He serves churches prophetically, particularly in the north of the UK, and has a passion to develop prophetic teams.

More posts from this conference can be found on my TOAM08 label page. You can download the mp3s of this week's talks by subscribing to the new Newfrontiers podcast, which will be an easy way for you to get access to the mp3s for free.

A prophet working in isolation can cause mayhem! But working with the local pastor produces both security and expansion in the people for whom he has responsibility.

Sam Poe began by turning to 1 Thessalonians 5. “Test everything. Hold on to the good, avoid every kind of evil."

The focal point of prophetic ministry should be the local church. The application and expression of that ministry is in building up the church. What Paul says in 1 Thessalonians 5 will require not just the prophets, but those in authority—teachers and pastors working together to ensure that prophecy is tested, weighed, and applied.

Prophecy can bring encouragement, direction, and prediction of the future, as well as warnings and correction. Mandates of this text are about prophecy.

SOME IMPERATIVES IN THIS PASSAGE

Don't quench the fire by disdaining or despising prophecy.
Because of the excesses, errors, and eccentricities, we can reject it because of this. Root the pictures in sound theology. We need elders who will pastor as leaders the prophetic. The central purpose of prophecy is to build up. They also have a foundational effort. Encouragement or exhortation—it’s about helping someone reach for a positive future. Don't ever use prophecy to try to get somebody to do something you want them to do. Life is full of trouble; prophecy brings comfort, which is more of a prod to get you going forward and to strengthen you in the battle.

TEST them all.
All prophecy needs to be tested. Not to judge with a scowl on the face. The word in Greek is to examine something and evaluate it with the attitude or expectation of approving it, i.e. our attitude should not be cynical.

Maintain what is good — hold on to it.
This is good and we want to take it on board and take some steps. Otherwise it could be frustrating. Apostolic ministry and pastoral ministry are critical. Fan the flames.

Abstain from whatever is evil.
Sometimes something comes in the name of prophecy that’s not helpful. Sometimes there is no real weight in the prophecy.

HOW TO RECEIVE PROPHETS INTO THE LOCAL CHURCH

If you don't have a well-established mature prophet in the life of the church, sometimes you may need to receive one of them. Ephesians 4:11 type prophets can help us lay firm foundations in the church. It's the same foundation that they lay.

As the question, "Are they accountable to a local church and its leadership?" Don't invite them if they aren't! Every leader and ministry must be rooted into the life of a local church. Some are very trans-local and mobile, but where is home? Where do they come back to? Are they related to and working in a team with an apostolic ministry? They are meant to be working together. Find each other and be related to each other.

It's important that the congregation has a clear biblical understanding of the place and value of prophetic ministry in the local church.

Phil Wilthew then added to this. Pastors and prophets are very different people. Pastors and prophets have the same job description –—i.e. to reveal Jesus. There are five ways this can work well.

Recognize differences.
God designed us to be different and complementary. Don't be too quick to compartmentalize. We are a blend of gifts. Gifts are colors and shades, but not boxes. Pastors tend to be warm, loving, create unity, security, strength, consolidate, provide strong foundations, are measured and well rounded, not given to extremes, cautious of change, patient, good for the long haul with no short sharp fixes. They are amazing gifts to the church. Prophets are the perfect foil for all those characteristics, — they are direct, love change, can get frustrated with the status quo, look at what’s ahead, find it hard to live in the hear and now as they are looking ahead, don't like maintaining and consolidating; they are impulsive, defensive, attacking, not measured, and dislike caution. Again an amazing gift to the church. There is a great potential for synergy, and also for challenge between them. Self-awareness is a great gift.

Practice love.
It's simple, but worth saying again. Neither circumcision or uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. If you don't have love, you are a painful cymbal. It's not emotional, it's something we do. Chemistry is important, but express faith and practice love. Don't be right all the time.

Love enables honest communication.
Love enables you to talk honestly with each other. But can rebuke, spell out what’s what. Too many people have high honesty, but shallow relationships. Paul opposed Peter face-to-face. Don't send an e-mail! Look in the whites of their eyes and realize I “need to talk to you honestly.” Gather pastors with prophetically gifted guys in the church into groups, teams. In times of frustration, don't be impulsive in your communication. Utilize communication, especially with prophetic people who have gone silent and found a cave to hide in!

Develop proper teams.
The first is a mixed-gift team. Be with guys who are not like you. Cover weaknesses. Also need same-gift teams, too. So we need to mix it up and have different combinations.

Play to your strengths.
We need to look to change the areas where we are lacking. But, we will be most effective by getting better at what we are already good at. Get better at your gift.

Give good feedback to good prophetic people in your church. The worst thing for most prophetic people is silence. Do it in the meeting. “I just want to say thank you so much to the prophetic people who shared this morning. I was particularly blessed by this ...” Also, provide personal feedback, e.g. “Thank you so much for sharing. Next time something that might really help you would be if you would talk slower and more clearly.”

Don't always translate frustration as rebellion, or that they are out of kilter. It's their job to plow things up. He hears God and mercilessly questions everything. A prophet is therefore seen as a threat and wants movement now. He is not a troubler. Ask prophetic folk what they are hearing. Work on the character of prophetic people in your church. Character training is of highest value. Rigorously challenge prophetic people on their time with God. Understand that accuracy is learned and developed over time. Need very positive encouragement and help.

It's very hard to describe in a blog post the combination of a raucous celebration, a fervent prayer meeting, a missions update, and a special offering evening that was the final night of our Leaders Conference. We collected over £1.1 million.

Rather than trying to capture the whole evening I thought I'd speak about just one of the many things that happened. We were told about just some of the European cities where we have brand new church plants that are currently under way or about to start. Then a mighty burst of prayer went up that these would be firmly and quickly established.

If you already live in one of these cities or could move to one of them and want to consider getting involved, please follow the links below. If there is no link yet, please send me an e-mail at adrian.warnock@gmail.com and I will forward your mail to the right place. If one of these centers that does not currently have a website eventually gets one, please do let me know. At the end of the list you should see a video introducing the Amsterdam plant.

Amsterdam — See Information Day, Facebook, and Sean Green's Blog
Dublin — See also Facebook
Paris — See George and Gill Tee's blog, "Tee Time in Paris"
Porto
Valencia
St Petersberg

The audio of this message can be downloaded, or you can listen to it right here:

More posts from this conference can be found on my TOAM08 label page. You can also download the mp3s of this week's talks by subscribing to the new Newfrontiers podcast, which will be an easy way for you to get access to the mp3s for free.

Mark Driscoll began by thanking us again for having him, thanking us for the trust placed in him as someone we didn't know, but who had a reputation for being proactive, for the reception and the new friendships, and specifically once again for Terry Virgo and Tope Koleoso, and for what he has learned.

Having been gracious, he then said, “And now I will hurt you . . .” with a twinkle in his eye. He says that he wants us to go beyond our goal of 1,000 churches and grow more quickly.

Our movement leader is Jesus. He interjected about his view of the apostolic. He briefly stated that he did believe in “capital A” Apostles whose job it was to write the New Testament. He also believes in “small a” apostles whose job it is to lead movements and church planting drives. And he believes in them for today. He also believes that Terry Virgo has such a gift and is therefore a modern-day apostle. Pointing at the crowd, he said, “This is good evidence” — meaning the movement of 600 plus churches represented in this room. Feel free to read one of my previous posts about modern day apostles if this all seems a bit strange to you.

Mark explained that the church exists because of Jesus' desire to reach the ends of the earth. Paul was a leader under Jesus in this movement of Christ, and was responsible for the drive to the Gentiles. Paul completely ignored the rural areas and focused entirely on the cities. Mark strongly urged those of us in Newfrontiers to hear this if we want to grow faster.

If you plant a church in a rural area you will never reach the city. If you plant a church in the city you will also reach the rural areas. Everything hinges on the well-being of the cities. Cities are strategically important for two reasons. First, there are more people there, and second, culture emanates/flows from the city. City is upstream, and suburban and rural areas are downstream. The river flows one way. Culture does not come from the rural areas into the city. The only way to change culture is to transform the city.

Both Christian and non-Christian movements have always emanated from cities. It's not the number of people, it's the type of people. But today most cities are non-Christian and the rural areas are more Christian. So Christians become frustrated with the culture — films, music, books, art, etc. The only way to affect that is to be in the city. The key to actual change is to get upstream. We need to lead politicians, artists, musicians, etc. to Jesus. It's not about getting a lot of people to make a difference. The degree of influence is not about the number of people, but their place upstream.

Christianity starts as an urban church planting movement. He described how he would go into a city and plant a church that could reproduce and plant out into the rural areas. Mark told us to pool our best leaders and resources into the key areas. Chief on that list is London. The world passes through London. Cities like Cape Town and Sydney and other such cities also need strong churches which will reproduce and plant more churches.

Early Christianity was a city-based movement. By 300 A.D. half of the cities of the empire were Christian while 90 per cent were still pagan. Pagan probably comes from a word which meant someone living on a farm. Urban church planting in strategic areas can become a center for a movement of its own. Multiple churches, multiple networks, multiple styles, but one mission—to obey the Great Commission.

Puritans were a movement. They were also very young—teens and 20's. Methodism, the charismatic renewal—bigger than one denomination or network or one man. Young people tend to be at the center, at least early-on. By bringing in the students suggests that God was telling Terry, “I am planning more renewal.”

Spurgeon, Moody, Billy Graham, and others were all very young when called to ministry. What young people lack in wisdom they make up in zeal. If the older ones can make the transition from player to coach, they will do well.

Anglicanism isn't having mass conversions right now because they are too busy fighting over who you can have sex with.

With a renewal movement going on, new churches are planted. New ways of doing things, new music, new styles, new ways of reaching out. Church planting requires new wineskins. The goal is not to plant churches, but to have converts such that it becomes necessary to plant churches.

Most movements are unaware of the scale of their influence.

Out of the movement comes supporting organizations—new songs, new books to write, etc.

Most movements come into being because of the coming of new technology. The Reformation was only possible because of the printing press. Evangelists like Billy Graham were only able to do what they did because of the newly invented amplified speaker systems, etc. The Internet is now spawning a new movement in form. We can preach the gospel to the nations with a click of a button.

Mark wants Newfrontiers to still exist when we are all dead, and to still be loving Jesus and planting churches.

Movements start as a simple organization that sees a need and a few friends club together. They come together to meet that need. God raises up a leader who the people recognize as the visible face, the one who God has called to lead them. The organization then grows and becomes a movement. Big interest is generated. More people come. The crowds grow. There is passion, purpose, mission, expansion. It can be fast and furious. Mistakes are made. Theology needs to be clarified. It can be a messy time, some people don't fit.

During the time of growth there is pressure to become an institution. There no longer is courage, but rather a fear of failure. Founders and friends occupy all the positions of leadership. Those who have been there a long time have all the senior roles, and there is no room for the young. As soon as that happens the young guys leave to start another movement. The young guys of the past are in danger of becoming the old guys that they never used to like in the first place.

The question for every movement is — Will every seat always be filled by the founders and friends? Only this will stop it becoming an institution. Institutions guard previous change, they don't pioneer new change. They stop listening to anyone outside of the network they're in. They only read books by, sing songs by, listen to teaching by people from inside their movement. A movement needs humility and discernment to listen to people from outside the movement.

Driscoll was shocked to be here. He sees how willing Newfrontiers is to bring in people from outside of Newfrontiers, bringing a gift to us. You receive it and consider it. That is one of the key ways a movement can avoid becoming an institution.

Once you have an institution, the next step is to become a museum. The remnant that is left behind exists solely to tell the story. In one generation a movement can transition to being an institution and then a museum.

Mark then outlined seven ways a movement can get off-track. He acknowledged that most of this was taken from Larry Osbourne.

Doctrinally
An example of this is Vineyard. It started well, but then drifted and compromised on ecclesiology, introduced women elders, etc. and became too loose. A movement can also become too tight. A healthy movement does not debate doctrines such as the atonement, the Bible, heaven, hell, etc., but should be free to discuss secondary issues. The key is to define what you need agreement on in order to be in the movement and what you can safely differ on.

Relationships
Mark has some concern for us here. People can love their circles of friendship so much that they are unwilling to break up their circles of leadership to make more room. It's like Peter saying, “Let's build tents.” Mission can become their friendship and not the Great Commission. It's not that you shouldn't have friends. But you tend to gravitate towards your friends. This affinity and love can exclude those who are new. This can be especially true in working teams. It might suddenly be time to break up a team for the mission. Again, Mark expressed a bit of concern for us over this.

There is a bit of relational resistance, and we should really be planting at least 70-100 churches a year from a base of 200 churches like Newfrontiers has in the UK. (Ed. There are another 400 or so worldwide.)

Organizationally
This is another concern Mark has for Newfrontiers. Everything is done initially through relationships and verbally. As time goes on, things must be written down, articulated, and defined. They move from the spoken to the written. If you are unwilling to make those adjustments you can become an institution. If the reason you don't want policies, etc. is that you don't want to become an institution, what you will become is a very poorly organized institution.

Organizational Pride
Some movements will not sing songs unless they have been written by them; they won't read books that have not been written by them; nor will they listen to those from outside. Mark stated that he has no concern whatsoever about Newfrontiers on this front. There are times that every movement outgrows the counsel of their leadership and need wisdom from outside. He commends Newfrontiers for being so open to outsiders teaching them.

Chasing Potential Rather Than Calling
Movements can chase too many things at once. For example, Vineyard started as a church-planting movement and then became a renewal movement. They were involved in so many other groups that they didn't really plant churches any more. Focus on the primary calling of the movement. Mark said that so far he hears that our primary goal is church planting, but 10 to12 churches a year is too few for a movement our size if we are truly pursuing this with all of our heart. He wondered what other things we were pursuing that were diverting our energies.

Movements Stagnate Because of Lack of Publishing
There is a need to do much, much more publishing. What is your doctrine of the Holy Spirit? What is your doctrine of church planting? What is your ecclesiology? Some of these things still need to be cleaned up. Actually he feels Newfrontiers is doing better than Acts 29 on some of these points. Websites, blogging, vodcasting, etc. More statements to safeguard the movement.

Mark warned us that the next point would be his most painful point, and he wasn't wrong. By the time he had finished with us, I don't think there was a dry eye in the hall.

Movements Get Off-Course Because They Fail to Simultaneously Honor the Founder and the Future
Some movements so honor the founder that they shipwreck the future. Some so honor the future that they shipwreck their founder. This is the defining issue for our movement. It will determine whether our movement a one-generation movement or many. At this moment do you believe that as a movement you would tend to honor your future or your founder? Which way do you feel Newfrontiers is heading?

For the first time in the history of a Newfrontiers conference, Mark proposed a vote. We don't vote, but went along with it just this once. Of those who were bold enough to raise a hand, 80 percent said that they felt our tendency as a movement would be towards honoring our founding leader rather than running after the future.

Driscoll agreed with those who responded that we tend to honor our founder, and we should do so! We love Terry Virgo and we should honor him. Mark said that he was only just getting to know Terry, but that he also loves him. He is a great man. He truly loves Jesus, the Scriptures, his family,and Newfrontiers. And we love him. The question is, How can we best honor him? We can do that by making sure that Newfrontiers remains a movement with a future and builds on Terry's life work.

Mark then explained that he felt that God had given him a prophetic word for us as a movement, and for Terry in particular. This was remarkable in a way because he had said repeatedly during the week that this was an area in which he was learning from us. In his own church he had said that although he believes in gifts, they don't use them. For someone who said he had no real models of gifts, he was about to share one that packed a heavy punch.

Looking down at Terry, who was sitting on the front row watching, he said that God had said that Newfrontiers is like a daughter to you, Terry. You have birthed it, held it, guarded it, cared for it, tended to it, prayed for it, loved it. You have been an amazing father to them.

He felt God said that, while not in the immediate future, there will come a day when you will need to walk her down the aisle and marry her to a great man so she will have children.

Driscoll urged us to pray for Terry as he is to make that transition at some point in the future. God will tell him. Be ready for it when it comes. Regularly pray for him. He asked us to commit to pray daily about this point. He said we should ask that Terry would have absolute certainty when it is time to walk it down the aisle, certainty about which man or men he should entrust her to. He looked at the crowd and declared, "You think of it a lot, but speak of it very little, because you love Terry. And you don't want to dishonor him."

Driscoll also warned us that we must not swing towards being all about the future. But it is the epicenter of whether we will continue to be healthy or begin to die. Pray for Terry Virgo. Pray for him every day that God will reveal to him when and how and who so that this will remain a movement. London is full of museums. We don't need another one. We don't need some of you to be just telling the stories in thirty years' time. We want the praises of Jesus to still be sung.

Rick Warren once spoke on movements. He said there are six phases of renewal:

It begins and ends with personal renewal.
You keep meeting with Jesus. He is alive! Be filled with the Spirit, meeting him in the Scriptures, be overwhelmed with the grace of God. Be scandalized with the gospel. Personal renewal, enthusiasm, joy.

Next there is relational renewal
Love of God in your heart is shared. Concern for the well-being of others. Captures something of your heart. Improves marriages, children. Circle of influence. Life of Jesus by the Spirit flowing through you to extend the grace of God to others. People show up early and stay late, and they are talking. They love to sing together because they are a people. This is what happens in Newfrontiers. Personal, which leads to relational, and shows up when we sing. Again Driscoll spoke of being impressed by our worship.

Missional renewal is the next phase
As we are connected to Jesus and love one another, our heart expands. We want new churches to get planted right now. We are people of God. The Word of God and the Spirit of God sustains us and we have to get that out.

Leads to cultural renewal
Be passionate about living as a city within the city. Cultural change in our churches will then spill out to the community. Infiltrates the culture of the cities. Culture here in Newfrontiers, according to Mark, is beautiful, but it needs to multiply.

Structural renewal then needed
The way we do things is going to need to change. More systems, more policies. 70-100 plants a year at least. The measure of life in this room should squeeze out many more than ten children a year!

Institutional renewal is the ultimate goal
Changing Christian organizations that are dead. Do not give up on churches, networks, museums, colleges, even Anglicanism. We could be a source of renewal. Pour life into a dead seminary, a dead church, etc. How refreshing it is to be around renewed people! This could be a gift to the whole body of Christ. In joy, giving them hope that change is possible. He said that for the entire time he has been with us, he has been happy, which is very unusual for him. He feels his spirit has been renewed through being here. We should pray for the dead and dying places where the light of the gospel is dimming or has been snuffed out altogether. Bring hope where there is hopelessness. In Acts 29, their church planters are from many different movements and denominations. It begins with Jesus and ends with everything. Young men, you need to step up. If he asks, Who are the young leaders here? don't point to men years older than Driscoll.

One prayer is for a bunch of 20 year old guys with hope who will plant churches and preach the gospel with hope. Be looking at all times for men in their 20's. They will be arrogant, foolish, impetuous, critical, disorganized, and they will be perfect for the task God has for them!

At the end of this talk, we did something that in my memory we have never done in the 30 years I have been attending Newfrontiers conferences — we all stood as one man in a standing ovation to this fatherly yet direct, loving yet firm, respectful yet critical, emotive yet rational, talk.

Terry Virgo then stood at the microphone and said that there have been times in our movement that were historic moments. He spoke about the way Kreingsak changed us in the past, and when Simon Petit spoke on the poor that also changed us. He said that he knew God told him to invite Mark Driscoll, but that when he did, he had no idea he would feel “taken apart” by him.

Terry then closed with a simple prayer in which he thanked God for his care for us as a movement. He also thanked God for Mark Driscoll, who he called one of God's most remarkable servants. He thanked God for the high privilege of having Mark Driscoll on this platform, and spoke of how we really are a FAMILY on a journey, with a God who is continualy expressing his love for us.

The speaker for the first main session today was P-J Smyth. P-J leads Godfirst Church and one of the Newfrontiers apostolic teams working in southern Africa, involved with planting and strengthening local churches. P-J, Ashleigh, and their three sons live in Johannesburg, South Africa.

More posts from this conference can be found on my TOAM08 label page. You can download the mp3 of P-J's talk or listen to it right here:


Those in distress, debt, and discontent, became the army of God. We need to manage a growing army that works. There are multiple enemies. When planting a church, it can feel like the people that gather are a motley crew. But God is in the business of producing change. It can be a cave-like start. It's not about being irresponsible and reckless. The cave is a season that becomes a great army. Don't panic if that is how it feels.

The Conscience of the Army (1 Chronicles 11:1-3)

Three things joined this group of people to David. What enabled them with a clear conscience to say “I am with you”?

1. You are our own flesh and blood, i.e. we like being around you.
   
   
2. We see the anointing/fruit i.e. we see what God has been doing.
   
   
3. Because God said.

They didn't follow because the leader was the closest geographically, or because you were named the successor.

Jesus would ask questions — Who do you think I am? Effectively, Where are you at with this? Do you love me?

Philemon 8. Paul said he could not compel. He uses the phrase “clear conscience” many times. “We commend ourselves to every man's conscience” (2 Corinthians 4:2). “What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience” (2 Corinthians 5:11). He did not inflict and was not overbearing.

David was willing to tell Saul that he had a track record — a bear came, a lion came; Goliath is no different. Sometimes it's not wrong to tell people about things that have happened before in order to help win them over.

Paul strongly urged Apollos, but he was quite unwilling. Paul then backs off, but trusts that Apollos will go at some point. Paul trusts the sovereignty of God (1 Corinthians 16:12). Paul will have nothing to do with violating another's conscience.

• Be convinced.
  
  
• Give compelling theological reasons.
  
  
• Give compelling pastoral, prophetic, or situational reasons.
  
  
• Acknowledge and thoroughly address concerns and difficulties.
  
  
• Reassure that you are continuously looking to God for confirmation; moving forward, but not burning bridges too soon.
  
  
• Have a culture of robust discussion and debate.
  
  
• Patiently help people to get their own “faith.”
  
  
• Keep “my way or the highway” for last resort. Persuade, don't bulldoze.

David was not a softy. It wasn't a democracy. Don't violate consciences, educate them.

1 Chronicles 12:16-18. David is very clear and direct. Basically, if you are against me, God will get you! But it was the Spirit who joined them to him.

If you get a new leader, allow him to get a year or two behind him. Look for a sense of relationship to grow, for you to see the anointing, so you will hear God. But if you feel after that time it just isn't working, you may have to readjust where you're at.

1 Timothy 1:18 tells us that if we reject the clean conscience, then there is a danger that we will end in a shipwreck.

Devotion of the army (1 Chronicles 11:16). Brought water back, but wouldn't drink it. Followers can express radical devotion, not just to the mission, but to the person. But the leader shouldn't just glug it down! Thanks mate, give me more! No! If people devote themselves to the leader, then the leader should send that back to God.

P-J shared two sets of statements taken from the Scriptures — one that he uses when he is doing the leading and one when he is doing the following. Sadly I was too tired to type fast enough to capture this list in its entirety. If you did a better job than me, please do send it to me and I will complete it here.

The Leadership Set of Scriptures

• I am not doing this for gain (2 Corinthians 2:17, 1 Timothy 3:8, 1 Timothy 6:5, Titus 1:7 ).
  
  
• I am free from the love of money, content, trusting God (Hebrews 11:5-6).
  
  
• I am above reproach, and at pains to do what is right in the eyes of God and man. (1 Timothy 3:2, 2 Corinthians 8:21)
  
  
• My followers owe me nothing—I will gladly spend myself for them. (2 Corinthians 12:4)
  
  
• I consider devotion to me as if to God ... I will pour it out to the Lord (1 Chronicles 11:18)

The Followers Set of Scriptures

• My leaders are worthy of double honor (1 Timothy 5:17).
  
  
• My aim is to make their lives a joy (Hebrews 13:17).
  
  
• I can be attentive to their needs and quick to try to help, alert to give them support and encouragement (1 Chronicles 11:18).

In David's team there were the 30, the 3, and some who were honored, but some who didn't quite fit. In fact, someone who wasn't in the 3 became their commander. Structure and clarity is important, but sometimes you have to break the mould a bit. We need to be secure in God and have slightly blurred lines. Don't try and fit God's structure into a neat human "organogram." We can sometimes fit things into such a thing, and it's good to do so.

Structure of the Army

• Some order and clarity is good.
  
• Don't force it into an organogram.
  
• Allow gifting of God to trump structure.

Friendship gets us to the table—it's a round table, but gifting determines who gets the loudest voice. Ordered, but organic.

The Leader of the Army

Lead Inclusive
1 Chronicles 11:4. “You will not get in.” But the next word says, “nevertheless.” David said “whoever leads will become commander in chief." Perhaps David was about to lead the charge and remembered Saul letting him go for the wrong reasons, and so said “Who’s up for it?”

Don't give everybody a go! Provide an atmosphere and an opportunity, but don't over-promote people. Give room, but followers need to fill that room. Leaders are looking for followers who will become leaders.

Lead Strong
Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

Leaders' Three Levels

• Guard what has been entrusted. Know what you are protecting. The trust, the people, the ground we have taken, the doctrine, myself, my integrity, my flock. Not going to throw away my wicket!
  
  
• Steady advance—it's not sexy, but it's important.
  
  
• Breaking new ground. Spot the opportunities. Cricketers have to decide: Will I let it go by, block it, or give it a whack? Seize the moments of advance. It's not teamsmanship; it's not managership; it's not administership. It's LEADERSHIP. Spot the soft spot of the enemy. When David sees Goliath he doesn't see the amor, he thinks, “What a big forehead you have!” Don't take "no" for an answer. Don't back off. I am up for this. We need an army of men who don't know what can't be done.

General Montgomery, on taking over the struggling 8th Army in 1942, said:

"I believe that one of the first duties of a commander is to create what I call ‘atmosphere’, and in that atmosphere his staff and troops will live and work and fight. I do not like the general atmosphere I find here. It is an atmosphere of doubt, of looking back to select the next place which to withdraw to, of loss of confidence in our ability to defeat Rommel, of desperate defence measures in preparing positions in Cairo and the Delta. All that must cease. Let us have a new atmosphere. The defence of Egypt lies here at Alamein. Here we stand and fight; there will be no further withdrawal. I have ordered that all plans and instructions dealing with further withdrawal are to be burnt, and at once. We will stand and fight here. If we can’t stay here alive, then let us stay here dead ... Our mandate from the Prime Minister is to destroy the Axis forces in North Africa; I have seen it, written on half a sheet of notepaper. And it will be done. If anyone here thinks it can’t be done, let him go once; I don’t want any doubters in this party. It can be done, and it will be done: beyond any possibility of doubt."

Emu and kangaroo are both physiologically incapable of going backwards. It's not like the army of God to go backwards.

This morning I attended the second session of the training track, Prophetic Encounter. This session was entitled “Prophets and Prophets Together Giving a Fuller Picture.” The New Testament refers to prophetic bands. Prophets working together often results in releasing the prophetic gift in greater measure, to the enhancement and greater health of the local church. The session was led by Keith Hazell, a visiting speaker from outside Newfrontiers.

Keith and his wife, Nova, live in Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada, and are based in Mosaic Church. Keith has been in the prophetic ministry for more than forty years and ministers extensively at home and abroad. He has a growing relationship with Newfrontiers churches, and has served some in East Anglia for more than twenty years. He and his wife are British-born and have strong roots in eastern England. They are blessed to serve in the body of Christ, along with their family, teaching and demonstrating the prophetic ministry.

More posts from this conference can be found on my TOAM08 label page. You can download the mp3s of this week's talks by subscribing to the new Newfrontiers podcast, which will be an easy way for you to get access to the mp3s for free

In the book of Acts, prophets do work in teams. Some people think prophets are all about tearing down. But the building-up bit is important. Prophets work as part of the leadership of a church, with different gifts.

Acts 13:1-3
“Now there were in the church at Antioch prophets and teachers . . .”

Prophets need to be comfortable with others; they are not individual players. We see them being sent in teams. They are under authority. Judas and Silas were sent together as a team and said much to encourage the Church.

1 Corinthians 14:29
Two or three should speak and others weigh carefully. It is a team package. Get confirmation from one another when a team is involved. Learn to hear the voice of God with other people.

Prophets Working Together in Unity
Whenever prophets are mentioned in the book of Acts, they are always mentioned in the context of the Church. There are no "Lone Rangers" in Acts. Identify who are prophets and who are not, and then use them to build the Church. God appoints them, the church recognizes them. As Ephesians 4 says, "God gives the Church prophets." The place for building the body is in the Church.

The Purpose of Prophets Working Together
This is good for their humility. Prophets should not think more of themselves than they ought. Like obscurity, hide as much as you can. When they work together they build. Prophecy is not just about blessing people as individuals.

Protection for the Church
One man prophetic ministry can be very dangerous for a church. One prophet doesn't see everything there is to see.

Prophets Train Others
Prophets need to reproduce other prophets—train people, help to stretch their horizons.

There is Power in Working Together
It is like an exponential increase of anointing. In 1 Samuel 10:5-6, Saul is told by Samuel that he will see a "procession of prophets coming down from the high place ... and they will be prophesying." As a result of him being near that group, the Spirit came on him. Iron sharpens iron. Get near people who are prophets and you may “catch” something, almost as if it's contagious.

Problems Do Arise Sometimes When Working Together
We all have human frailties that can interfere with our ability to work together. We can feel jealous sometimes. Some prophetic people take pride in being weird and eccentric. In a team that can get ironed out. Some become insecure and depressed. Apostolic covering brings security. It makes all the difference. Accountability is crucial for prophets.

Promises Are Given by God
Ecclesiastes 4:9 — “Two are better than one ...” Because we only know in part and prophesy in part, you get a bigger picture.

Deuteronomy 32:30 — "How can one man chase a thousand, or two put ten thousand to flight?" Two people can put 10,000 to flight, but one only 1,000.

Julian Adams then added some additional thoughts. Prophets are intercessors. There is something about connecting to the heart of God and his affection, being carried into the heart of God together. Developing a sensitivity to the emotions of God for the people you are about to prophesy over. Get God's heart. Pray together as prophetic people.

We are in Christ so there will never be a closed heaven. When Jesus was baptized heaven was opened, and now he has risen to heaven.

Prophets can also come together for the sake of evangelism. Start with an encouraging word. Encouragement is the simplest form of prophecy. When unbelievers come in, they should say God is in this place. The worship team and prophecy can go together also. Stop, pause, and meditate.

I was getting tired last night, so I devoted more of my attention to being personally impacted by this message and less to typing. Thus, these notes will probably be shorter than some of the other sessions, which is probably just as well!

Last night's main session was taken by David Devenish. Dave is based in Woodside Church, Bedford, UK. He is working with many churches in Russia and the Ukraine, and preparing churches and individuals for world mission. He has written the books, Setting People Free, Demolishing Strongholds, and What on Earth is the Church For? He has also developed various training courses. He is married to Scilla and they have four grown-up children.

More posts from this conference can be found on my TOAM08 label page. You can download the mp3 of Dave's talk or listen to it right here:


Jeremiah was appointed as a prophet to the nations. “Go to everyone I send you to and say what I command you to.”

Will we stand out as those who understand what God is doing in the uncertainty of our times? God is looking for people who know what he is saying to our world today. Jeremiah is the longest book in the Bible, except for Psalms. Dave said this book had gripped him for the past few weeks, so much so, in fact, that his wife Scilla would ask, “Are you with us?” David gave us an introduction and overview to the historical background and story of the book of Jeremiah.

Jeremiah speaks of a new heart being needed, regeneration. Jeremiah's story shows someone who was prepared to stand against prevailing opinion. Jeremiah, who was like Jesus in some ways (e.g. said not to rely on the temple) had a message for the oppressor and the oppressed.

Knowing you are called to what you are doing, and that it is not your own initiative, but God’s, is very liberating. God calls us for no reason in us. He cries out, “Who will go?” “Here am I, send me!” He calls the young and the old. He calls us to extend the kingdom in all kinds of settings. The word “appointed” to the nations can also be translated “a gift.”

Jeremiah speaks to the nation about how they are to be a blessing to the nation by whom they have been captured. They are to pray that the culture prospers, for if they prosper, the people of God will prosper. We are to be engaged in our culture, to bless our culture. Our base loyalty is to Christ, but we live on this earth in a nation. We have been scattered to bring the blessings of Abraham to the world.

God wants us to engage with the culture and yet maintain integrity, and therefore we must change from within. As a movement, and for many individuals, he wants to call us to be a “prophet to the nations.” God wants to underline that. You can be a prophet to the nations wherever you are.

Why does he believe God has called us to be a prophet to the nations?

• Theologically, we are convinced that the promises to Abraham were fulfilled in Jesus and are now to be fulfilled by those in Christ.
  
  
• We are already seeing God doing this.
  
  
• We have apostolic passion for this—that the ends of the earth may know.
  
  
• God has been prophetically leading us.

There is a need both to tear down AND to build and plant. We need to pull down non-biblical teaching and practice within the Church as it is destroying the Church. But we must also pull down a wrong world view in culture and replace it with a Christian world view. When we positively engage with the culture, but with a core value system that transforms that culture, that is the essence of being a prophet.

Terry began by recommending the outstanding biography of John Newton written by Jonathan Aitkin. I have listened to the CD version and enjoyed it immensely. I join Terry in commending it strongly to you. Terry also recommended two books by Christopher Wright on being missional.

Mark Driscoll began by returning to the marks of a spirit-filled church. He again explained to us that he believes we have been faithful in the mission. He feels, however, that perhaps we could see more fruitfulness. He is convinced that we can grow more quickly and be more effective at reaching people for Christ.

More posts from this conference can be found on my TOAM08 label page. You can download the mp3 of Mark's talk or listen to it right here:


As he began, I was very impressed that, as he prayed, he asked the Holy Spirit to guard his words, his attitude, and his tone.

Here, then, is Driscoll’s eight-point definition of the Church. Some of these constitute the being, and others the well-being of the Church.

1. Regenerated Church Membership

Qualified Church Leadership

This is, he believes, THE strength of Newfrontiers based on what he has seen. In particular, Driscoll said it is very important to hold the line on male eldership. To oppose this position is very popular among those who are not successful. You have to approach the Scriptures differently to come to the opposite position. One of the reasons Newfrontiers is strong, argues Driscoll, is because of our commitment to male elders. If we ever compromise on that issue, we will find our blessing will diminish. Continue to hold that line. To change it changes everything—how families are organized, etc. Church life sets the pattern for home life. We need pastor-dads who are shepherds to their own flock at home. Keep holding that line!!

Gathering Regularly for Preaching and Worship.

He feels he is learning a lot from us on worship. (See also what he said on his blog about Newfrontiers.)

Rightly Administered Sacraments

Unity and Affection, which is evidence of the Holy Spirit

Discipline for Holiness

Church discipline is critical. Church discipline is correction, not retribution, just the same as in the family. Not to destroy someone, but to persuade them not to continue in sin. Don't preach one thing and fail to enforce it.

Obey the Great Commandment to Love—Church and Neighbor

Obey the Great Commission to Evangelize and Make Disciples

If definitions 1 through 7 are not present, you cannot do mission because unity isn't there. Prayer and worship and fellowship can be so much loved that we somehow just trust that the work will get done. Since we also believe God is sovereign, we tend to let him figure it out. Because we are charismatics, we tend to think the Spirit will figure it out. Truth is, we need a plan, and a more intentional one. We will see some growth without an intentional plan because we’re healthy, but if we are intentional about it we will grow faster.

God will be glorified by making disciples. Don't have a branch of church called the “Mission Department.” We have to have ALL branches of our churches being missional. So kids work is about discipleship of kids, etc. We want our children to be on a mission with us, too.

There was a missionary in India, and he discovered upon his return that London had become just as pagan as India was. He realized that the churches didn't think they needed to be missional themselves. If you are a Christian, you tend to become assimilated into the subculture of the church. Take all our missional thinking and be missionaries in the West.

Some people think of church as a bomb-shelter. You can identify this by lots of “we and them” language. Here you will find lots of preaching against the culture, not engagement with it. You will find people who share your values and protect your kids. There is no attempt to evangelize. This is classic fundamentalism.

Other people see church as a mirror. This is classic liberalism. Gender issues is a classic current example. If the culture is for an issue, the church then compromises and mirrors what is in the culture. No attempt is made to redeem the culture. They may be more aware, but in the end they are less helpful.

Some see church as a parasite. They enter the culture to take out of it for themselves. There is no real giving. They want to benefit from what happens, but not do for them. Ask non-Christians what they think of the church. Their answer will be—no serving the poor, no helping, no doing good, and taking, not contributing.

Some see church as a city within a city—a city on a hill. The Church is the city of God within the city of the world. Here the Church loves Jesus, believes the Bible, practices grace, and the power of God is made known. The people live differently within the culture. They are not antagonistic or negative, but live an alternative life style. They invite others to join in this life style.

Driscoll then began to identify the twelve aspects of a missional church.

First, a missional church sees the church as a missional outpost—with a view for growth. We have a weakness in Newfrontiers, in Driscoll's view, which is a fear of multiple services. More options means more people can be reached. Multiple services should become a goal. People can tend to define the church by the number of people in a room at one time. But it should be defined by the number of people on a mission, even if they are never in a room together. Can have multiple campuses. Can have one church in more than one location as a second form of church planting. A missional church does church plant. We should set aside money specifically for church planting. At least 10 per cent of church funds at Acts 29 churches go to church planting.

Second, a missional church sees every Christian as a missionary. Cares for those with whom they come in contact. Pays attention to getting out and reaching out. Needs their people to be good theologians and good apologists. Sets things up so people naturally bring their non-Christian friends to church. Shares the gospel every single Sunday. If you think that they are all Christians, they are not! If, for example, you want men, preach to men, even if there are none there because their wives will get them to come. It can’t be a goofy presentation of the gospel, it must be a relevant one. Every week train them to recognize how everything relates to Jesus, e.g. marriage, parenting, etc. Mark shared an example of a couple in the church who couldn't understand why they shouldn't sleep together outside of marriage. He told them, “You are preaching a false gospel.” He asked them if their friends knew that they were Christians and were doing this. If so, he explained, they were saying the wrong thing with their lives. Jesus has a bride, not a girlfriend.

If people know that there will be preaching about Jesus and the gospel every week, they will bring their friends. It won’t matter what week they come. Mars Hill has a group that discusses what he has preached. Those who come don't have to be Christians and can ask questions. Most people will allow you to pray for them, even if they are atheists. As soon as you get cancer, your become an agnostic. “Would you mind if I pray for you right now?”

Bring converts on stage. Let them tell their story. Tell them to share their stories before you baptize them. Stories drive us to being missional. A church is cursed when there are no converts or babies.

Daniel and his contemporaries weren’t just in Babylon to be punished, but to be a missionary to share the knowledge of God to all those kings. Driscoll again said that in watching Newfrontiers, it was his observation that we are devoted to the Lord. But we must be more of a witness to those around us.

Third, a missional church is keenly aware of the local culture. (Acts 17—He SAW that the city was full of idols.) We must be greatly troubled. We are too submerged in our Christian subculture. We need to ask ourselves, “What is going on in the world? What is popular? Which shows are women watching? Which are men watching?” He watches teenage girl shows because he wants to know what they are thinking! He wants to get ahead of his daughter. Fast-forward them. Ultimate fighting is the fastest growing sport in the USA, for example. TV shows the different gods, whether sports, fame, sex, money, etc. Look for the idols. Watch it missiologically. Don't be naïve. Stop the movie and discuss it with them. Where is the Dad? Dad is an idiot, but the dog is smart. What are they trying to tell us? That if you can’t trust Dad, you should do it yourself. TV shows are sermons. Watch Extreme Makeover. Ask yourself, “What is missing? Why does this family need this house?” None of the families have a Dad! Where’s the Dad? Use the examples that are out there. Work illustrations into the preaching. They know who Posh Spice is, or whoever! I pay attention to your world; now let me tell you about the culture of the Bible. Listen to radio/drive time TV. Know what people are talking about. See who are the teams and tribes. Find your kids My Space page! Find the teens in your church. Facebook and My Space are like a Catholic confessional. Pay attention to the students lives in the church. What are your people reading in blogs?

Magazines have on their cover someone's definition of heaven. Car heaven, six-pack heaven, stereo heaven, photography heaven, etc. Visions of heaven. If you buy the magazine can be delivered from your hell and give you your heaven. Do these things and you will get there. It’s evangelism. How does this work with the Bible? Is that view of heaven they are offering false? Why? What is the underlying need the magazine is trying to address?

People are devoted religiously to hobbies, sports, etc. Go to the mall before the kids do! If shopkeepers are working in the middle of the afternoon they are bored. See what they are selling and buying. Ask questions of the bored store workers. He walked into a teenage girls’ clothing store. He said, “Do you have anything in my size?” He told her the truth, that he is a pastor always looking to learn, who has a daughter who is almost a teenager. “Who shops here? What do they buy?” He walked out understanding more of why girls feel pressured to look a certain way.

Grocery store. Go with the intent of looking at everything. What’s there? What does it tell you? Big organic section means there are more green people. They believe in justification by recycling so you need to have recycling bins at church! Good to learn.

First place—where do they live? Second place—where do they work? Third place—where do they play? Go to where they play. Where they would live if they could afford it! Where do they really want to be?

Do you have a total routine? Repent and stop doing it. Leave early and use it to look around. There are multiple ways to do church work—see what is happening in your neighborhood. His wife asks, “Where are we going?” He says, “Don't worry, we will get there. I’m not lost I am missiological. Interesting! There's new businesses going in here, young families moving in. Pull over and start asking people questions.

This is not British, but that is why the UK is so non-Christian.

Building works asked the foreman, “What’s going on?” Oh, couples leaving, so we’re tearing down some homes and building condos. That’s more people. Start a new community group there and welcome them into the neighborhood. What is happening?

Speak to parents. What is happening to the kids? Talk to the people who talk to the people. Ask the cashier questions. Who comes in here? Who’s the weirdest person who ever comes in here? Talk to the people in service economy. They see hundreds of thousands of people all week. They see the real deal!

What’s going on lately at the bank? Was told people are freaking out. Checks bouncing. Well, maybe we should do seminars on money then! Always look for new opportunities.

Start an evening service for new people. They had five services where he preached live, but that felt like being hit by a truck. So they went down to four services, which now feels like being hit by a car! Services at 8:30 at night are packed and people even show up late! People who are out last night won’t get up for a 9 a.m. service. He pastors people publicly by text message, i.e. asks questions anonymously. Someone once asked, “I have been raped, can I get an abortion?”

Consider everybody in your church. It’s okay to be family friendly, have a great kids program, help your marriage. But if you’re not careful, singles may get the impression that you don't want them, don't need them, don't like them. Now there are more unmarried than married people! These days being married to a woman and having children is countercultural. If someone who is the product of an abused home walks in, etc., it’s not about trying to maintain a good family.

When preaching through the book of Ruth, Mars Hill showed great growth at that time. They had to turn 300 people away from one of their services! Is your church welcoming, friendly, a hospital to those people? Or is it all married couples and families?

Missional church contends and contextualizes. Jude says “Contend for the faith.” What are we going to fight over? What’s in the closed hand? You guys love the Bible, Jesus, the cross, the resurrection, the ministry of the Holy Spirit, the poor, the lost, church planting. Keep that! Fight for them! But also contextualize. By ALL MEANS save as MANY people as possible. Do it for the sake of the gospel. Open the door to your church as broadly as you can without compromising. Use technology, etc.

We are NOT trying to make Christianity relevant, but rather are showing that it IS ALREADY relevant.

If a teenage girl tells you she lost her virginity to her father, the gospel IS relevant to her, but she needs to be shown HOW it is. So said I need to speak to you about expiation. “I’ve no idea about what that means!” Took some time, showed her that what was done to her the Bible calls a sin, a horrific evil. Fathers are privileged to carry the name father and carry it with nobility and honor. What has happened to you is shocking. What did you do afterwards? Took a shower because I felt dirty. You were defiled. The Bible says there is sin that is done by us and against us. And sin does make us dirty. “I will always feel dirty.” Jesus is God. He came to earth, was abused and beaten and tormented and shamed. He was humiliated and tortured. He can sympathize with you. God was sinned against. Jesus went to the cross and they killed him. But he forgives our sin AND cleanses us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1). She said, “I feel totally ashamed.” Jesus endured the cross and scorned its shame. Jesus died not only to forgive you, but to cleanse you from the sins against you. That shower was an effort for you to cleanse yourself, but it can’t cleanse your soul, your identity, your femininity. The gospel was relevant to her! She responded immediately. Driscoll said to her, “Choose to see yourself as Jesus does. You need Jesus so you can be cleansed, pure, and wear white!”

We don't MAKE Jesus relevant; we show how he already IS relevant.

This morning I attended the first segment of the training track, Prophetic Encounter. Today's session, "Apostles and Prophets Together on a Mission," emphasized that there is great strength in apostles and prophets working together. They are often seen as complementary gifts in the early church as they help to lay foundations and bring adjustment to erroneous practices in church life. Today's session was led by Guy Miller and Julian Adams.

Guy is based in Bournemouth, UK and heads up the team that oversees the Wessex region. Guy also leads the eldership team at Citygate Church, Bournemouth, and has responsibilities in India and Portugal. He is married to Heather and they have four children.

Julian Adams is originally from The Bay Community Church, Cape Town, South Africa, where he was an elder. He moved to the UK in August 2006 in response to God's leading for him to be with Terry Virgo for a season and become part of Church of Christ the King, Brighton. In August 2007, he returned to South Africa for a few months before returning to Teesside in the north of England. Julian has traveled widely, serving Newfrontiers churches in the UK and elsewhere.

More posts from this conference can be found on my TOAM08 label page. You can download the mp3s of this week's talks by subscribing to the new Newfrontiers podcast, which will be an easy way for you to get access to the mp3s for free.

In introducing the seminar, Guy reminded us of the similar seminar from last year. I was there myself and can testify to the life-changing nature of the time. The prophecies given to me last year were very important and influential on my life. There are some implications of that which I will be sharing on my blog at some point in the coming weeks.

As for two specific things that happened last year in this seminar— one guy was singled out and prophesied over in a highly specific way, and a church plant in Paris was the result. There was also a barren woman who now has a baby.

Prophets do sometimes disrupt nice tidy churches. But people sometimes take a prophetic word out of context and turn it into individualism. Actually, it should build the local church, not send people into isolation.

Ephesians 2 and other places speak of apostles and prophets working together. We believe the gifts in Ephesians 4 are intended for today.

How do apostles and prophets work together? Not everyone is a prophet or apostle. Apostles equip, build, and plant churches and help them to be healthy. Apostles know how to build the church with Jesus as the foundation. They are given by the ascended Christ. They draw all the other gifts back to building the local church. Apostles lay the hidden foundations. No one ever says you have lovely foundations in your house! If apostolic ministry is working, then people see a glorious church, although they might not always realize what the foundations are.

The Church is built on apostles and prophets who work together. A prophet is not someone who sometimes prophesies. They are big picture men. People who catch the Church up to the bigger framework of God's unfolding plans in history.

Jesus is the cornerstone; everything else fits to him. Jesus is the center. Apostolic ministry sniffs out legalism and teaches grace. Apostolic ministry is missional. The great days of mission are before us as a movement. Apostolic ministry is concerned about the poor.

Two reasons why apostles work with prophets. One is for accountability. Are you going beyond what God said? Has it come true? Are you ministering out of pride or hurt? Prophetic ministry can break the status quo. But we can treat prophecy with contempt. The second is authority. Without authority, prophecy is dangerous. Prophetic can lead to “I am doing what I want to do.” The other thing is that we have to interpret how to respond. Agabus predicted a famine and a response was needed. Later on, when he predicted the imprisonment of Paul, the correct response was for Paul to do nothing and keep going. Apostles will know how to respond to the word of prophecy.

Julian Adams then came up and spoke about his experiences of working in partnership with apostles. He explained that he worked alongside Simon Petit, who valued the prophetic highly and then applied it radically. For Simon, prophetic encounters drove much of the shape of ministry. Traveling with Simon opened a bigger picture of what the Church was. It made him want to give the rest of his life to building the local church. We must see something of the mystery of Christ and his Church. They want to see the Church become all that she should become.

He then turned to Matthew 16 and began reading at verse 30. It is ongoing revelation of the resurrected Christ that is the foundation of the Church. We don't add things to the Bible, as the Bible is enough. But there is a living, speaking, talking, caring, loving Jesus who wants to reveal himself to you in order to shape your destiny and direct the Church, which is still His.

Prophets flow from a place of encountering Jesus in order to receive blueprints and revelation so that the Church can be built. Each church has a location, a personality, a blueprint. The prophet recalls the blueprint for that locality.

Someone who prophesies is not necessarily a prophet. The first way you know someone is not a prophet is when they call themselves a prophet! There is a “spirit of prophecy” which can affect people in the room when a group of prophetic individuals are together. Baptism with the Holy Spirit is often the gateway gift, allowing things to flow together. Hang out with other prophets. But not ones who are too weird.

Ask God for words of knowledge and prophecy. Ask also him for an impartation from other prophets. You can flow in the gift of prophecy much more. It is our inheritance to move in prophecy. All of God's servants are now able to hear his voice (see Acts 2 where Joel is quoted). We didn't get saved just because of a good preacher—the Spirit of God spoke to our spirit and caused it to become alive so we could respond to him.

Don't follow after prophetic words, follow after intimate communion with the Father. We have access. The big difference between Old and New Testament prophets is that everyone under the new covenant can hear from God, not just the prophet. The prophet is given to the Church.

Prophets speak with a different authority. The reason for prophecy is not that people can be individually blessed. Instead, it is to set the individual into a place where they can function best to help people. The prophetic carried weight in the early Church. "There is going to be a drought," said Agabus, and they immediately made provision. They weighed prophecy. We must not take them flippantly. Get the Church ready for Christ's return. Add weight to the Word.

Faith is the activating ingredient to see the Word of God come to pass. Ministry that apostles and prophets have in common is that they come into a context to break legalism, control, and the spirit of Jezebel. No word is too big for your local church. Prophets and apostles will do a consultation with them. Prophets feel things, sense things. It's like an antenna—it can get crossed sometimes. Sometimes the prophets don't even realize what they are doing. A wise apostolic man will pick up on what is being said and apply it. Prophetic people get rejected. Prophets are in the pit. They get frustrated. Sometimes that frustration leads to rejection of the Church. But you can't love Christ without loving his bride. You cannot carry the head around without his body.
Apostolic ministry is not management speak. The point is that we need revelation by the Spirit. We need signs and wonders. Fall in love with Jesus. He is empowering you to live a resurrected life! Let's love him a little bit! God wants to hear your voice. Lift him up. God is not deaf, but he's not scared either!

During the worship time this morning, Keith Hazell shared an interesting prophetic word. It spoke about a wind coming that would shake things in our land, but also a great time of blessing for us. He felt that there would be new alliances forged and new opportunities presented to the church by the government.

This morning's preacher was David Stroud. Dave leads ChristChurch, London, and the Newfrontiers UK team. He has been involved in leading churches for over sixteen years; ChristChurch is the third church that he has planted. He is married to Philippa, and they have three children.

More posts from this conference can be found on my TOAM08 label page. You can download the mp3 of Dave's talk or listen to it here:


David began by speaking of how Andrew Murray at Wimbledon was, in an instant, able to turn around from losing and being a point away from elimination to eventually winning the championship. A leader has to ask, “How can I turn things around?” We often have to ask that of ourselves, our families, our churches, and our communities.

When Saul started trembling on the inside, the people picked up on it. The army panicked and went into hiding. Saul got an appraisal from God via a prophet. He was told that he was getting fired. The next man had already been found. Saul gave into fear three times. When that happens, you think about yourself. When that happens, you end up in sin. To understand this, we must see the contrast between Saul and Jonathan. Saul is bad, Jonathan is good, and we are to learn from him. Jonathan says, “C'mon! Let's go up!” His amor bearer says, “I’m with you!” Attacking up hill is difficult.

The goal was to go to the outpost, but panic meant the whole army would kill each other. It is all about Jonathan through the entire passage to the end, when it says, “The LORD saved Israel.”

What can we learn from this passage?

Jonathan Did Not Give Up Hope
When you give up hope you do nothing because there is nothing to do. Saul was hopeless, but Jonathan had boldness. Optimism is good, but it's not enough. Anyone can do optimism, but what God has called us to do is fundamentally different. It is something rooted in God. Jonathan's outlook was shaped by the Lord, what he knew of God, and what God had promised the people.

We can have hope because of what Jesus has done. The big hope-giver is his resurrection. He wasn't just a man who lived and made incredible claims. Because he is raised, you realize everything he said is true.

When your God is not in the grave, people get transformed and healed. One man from their church came out of the theater after a meeting and asked a homeless man if he wanted a meal. The homeless man replied that he couldn't walk to a nearby Kentucky Fried Chicken because his feet were so swollent. So the guy from the church went and brought back the food to him. Then he prayed for him and the man's feet were totally healed. He was leaping for joy, saying, "Jesus healed my feet!!" There is a scene in Lord of the Rings where it is said, “Everything sad is going to come untrue” because of the resurrection of Gandalf. How much more the resurrection of Jesus!!

Jonathan said, “Perhaps the Lord . . .” — He keeps breaking in on our lives!

If you are a man of hope you will gather the right people around you. Then you can stand on their shoulders. Look for faith and flexibility in the hearts of the people you want to draw around you.

Saul was very lazy. Nobody even noticed people leaving the camp. Even the basics were being badly done. The most basic thing is turning up. It's your relationship with God. How is it going? Easier to be with the Lord when you have hope. Stay good at the basics. Keep your life pure. David was also lazy on the basics (on the roof, not at war). Don't be lazy. Hope fuels intimacy.

Saul was a maintenance man, but Jonathan was focused on expansion. When Saul saw the enemy running, you would have thought he would rush in. Instead, he took a roll call. He wanted to know who was responsible, what had happened—like a management approach. We should be about breaking out from here and breaking into new areas. Are you keeping everything running smoothly or are you breaking out?

Saul Was Stuck in Passivity
Jonathan was full of action. Saul was not. We can get into cycles where we never get interrupted. We can lead quiet lives of desperation. What stops us from taking the initiative? Mostly not knowing whether it's the right thing or not. But neither did Jonathan. Sometimes God confirms things once we are moving, rather than while we are standing still waiting. Take action and expect God to speak as you go. Don't wait to be sure that it is right before you take the first steps.

There were obstacles ahead. Jonathan had an army lacking in motivation, with two swords, an unassailable position, and just one other man with him. You don't have to know how to overcome the obstacles before you reach them.

The fear of failure. We don't like failing. But that wasn't an obstacle. We will massively limit the number of things we do if we think we need to be sure it will work before it starts. The ones who succeed the most are the ones who fail the most. Don't allow the concern of failing to hold you back. A long list of failings means you can have a long list of successes as well. The LORD had given the Philistines into their hands. He gets going, but is waiting for faith before he takes the really big step.

There is a world of difference between bravado and faith. You need your own faith. We do sometimes hear someone else's story and our faith is ignited. Real faith is given when we KNOW what is going to happen. The walk of faith—up the cliff. He had no defenses as it was hands and feet. He had to keep going. When they got to the top, they did what they could do, with God's help. The task at hand was actually quite small. Twenty men were killed. Then God did something far bigger. Panic and an earthquake from God came. They couldn't have done that!

Dream and ask the Lord—"What can I do that is imaginably more than I could ask or dream?" Our dream is that our nation will feel different. That there will be that atmosphere. We want to see tens of thousands coming to Christ, with vast churches built that are full of the Word and Spirit. We want the appetite for gossip to change so that the newspapers have to change what they print. That the prisons are empty. That more people get married and stay married. That the poor get hope from the Church. That stories and films will be created that are positive, wholesome, and are blockbusters. That people who think develop scholarship that defends godliness and goodness. We want godly artists that make our culture richer. No one of us can do that. But if each of us take our individual outposts, who knows what God will do?

This was a faith-imparting message. It painted a big picture of a vision for a transformed nation. It raised our hopes and encouraged us to take those little actions that God is putting before us.

One of the great joys of this conference is that it is a gathering of friends. I had a lovely tea at the Grand Hotel on the Brighton seafront with my dear friends, Ian and Megan Jukes, Andrew and Cheryl Cottingham, and Tom Eaton. We had a lot of fun, and the connection was re-established. I suddenly realized that around Brighton many such reunions of longstanding friends who are also attending this conference are undoubtedly happening.

During the worship time there were some stirring prophetic words that spoke of us becoming more prominent and that there would be new openings for us as a movement.

Terry Virgo was the speaker last night. He is based right here in Brighton at Church of Christ the King, and leads the Newfrontiers team. A well-known Bible teacher, Terry speaks at conferences around the world. He has written several books, including No Well-Worn Paths, God's Lavish Grace, and The Tide is Turning. Terry blogs here, and I have interviewed him at the following pages:

• Terry Virgo on the Future (June 2007)
  
  
• Terry and Wendy Virgo at New Word Alive (Video Interview, April 2008)
  
  
• Terry and Wendy Virgo at New Word Alive (Transcript of Video Interview)

More posts from this conference can be found on my TOAM08 label page. You can download the mp3 of Terry's talk, or listen to it right here:


As a background, Terry was praying with his wife, Wendy, about other things. Suddenly he heard the phrase, “Stephen and Philip.” It was so clear that he asked his wife, “Did you just say Stephen and Philip?” He felt that God had asked him to look at these men, who were not front line people, not Apostles, but served God's purpose in a remarkable way.

Terry began last evening's session by reading extracts from Acts 6-7 to us.

In Acts 2 we see the Holy Spirit came on the disciples and a large number repented. The Spirit then fell on thousands of other people. No longer was it just one or two people. There was a sudden invasion of the presence of God. God himself flooded the place. Five thousand people were saved in one day, but since only the men were counted, when the women and children were included, it would probably have been around 20,000 people!

It then goes on to speak of large multitudes being added to the Church. All were healed—vast numbers. Thousands. Jesus had conquered death and was out of a sealed grave. The Sanhedrin took the leaders and locked them in prison, and almost like another resurrection, they were gone the next morning and were in the temple preaching. It was impossible to hold down these people!

Stephen and Philip arrive on the scene at a time when much growth is occurring. There is a crisis of growth. It was a social thing. God is interested in the poor and the orphans. We need to express our love in terms that help the poor and needy.

Contention arises between the Greek and Jewish widows. There is a challenge to justice. The Apostles know they must prioritize prayer and the preaching. They don't just want sharp guys who can administrate; they ask for men full of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit enables them. It is that filling by the Spirit that confirms that they are equipped and chosen by God.

Both of these men were so flooded with God that they did more than they had been appointed to do. They overflowed with God and began to preach and heal despite not being Apostles. They did signs and wonders. [Incidentally, the thought struck me here that those who claim that healings were only intended to attest to the original Apostles are not really taking into account these two people, among others!]

The servants of God are backed up in the Bible by supernatural evidences that God is with them. There are seasons in the Old Testament when people are far from God and it seems the supernatural is far from them. Then, again and again, when they turn back to God, signs and wonders occur.

Romans 15:18 — “What Christ has accomplished through me ... by the power of the Spirit of God.”

There are some who argue that signs and wonders ceased when the Scriptures were closed. But we believe God wants to do things to confirm and affirm his Word. Some are saying that it is not for today. Jesus told us that we would do the same things he did. He has received the Holy Spirit and all authority, and he now sends the Spirit and says, “Go and do the things that I do!”

In recent years we have seen an escalation of healing among us—more than in previous decades. Terry asked who had seen a healing in their own church in the last five years. Almost every person in the room raised a hand. Because of the lights, Terry wasn't able to see everyone and said “hundreds” were raising their hands. The truth is, it was thousands.

We must break through our cynicism and unbelief and come back to biblical Christianity—Word and deed. We must press on and ask for more.

It's no good only arguing for the authority of Scripture. We must also act as though we believe in the reality of the supernatural God. Present contact with the supernatural is not far off and strange.

Francis Schaeffer, in Death in the City, claims that too many Christians act as if they come into contact with the supernatural twice in their lives—at conversion and resurrection. Instead, we live as materialists:

"Christianity is not just a mental assent that certain doctrines are true—not even that the right doctrines are true. This is only the beginning. This would be rather like a starving man sitting in front of great heaps of food and saying, “I believe the food exists; I believe it is real,” and yet never eating it. It is not enough merely to say, “I am a Christian,” and then in practice to live as if present contact with the supernatural were something far off and strange. Many Christians I know seem to act as though they come in contact with the supernatural just twice—once when they are justified and become a Christian, and once when they die. The rest of the time they act as though they were sitting in the materialist’s chair.

The difference between a Christian who is being supernatural in practice and one who says he is a Christian but lives like a materialist can be illustrated by the difference between a storage battery and a light plug. Some Christians seem to think that when they are born again, they become a self-contained unit like a storage battery. From that time on they have to go on their own pep and their own power until they die. But this is wrong. After we are justified, once for all through faith in Christ, we are to live in supernatural communion with the Lord every moment; we are to be like lights plugged into an electric socket."

Francis Schaeffer, Death in the City, page 147

Stephen was a "wisdom and power" man. These days there are two lots of websites—there are power websites and there are wisdom websites. If you go to the power site, there is no wisdom. If you go to the wisdom site, there is no power. Why do websites where we hear much about power have little in the way of good teaching? Why do the sites where we love to listen to the teaching know nothing of the power?

We can't say, “Let's forget the wisdom and get into the power.” You don't get into power by blowing your brains away. Paul doesn't depend on wisdom, but he is described as reasoning and persuading people about the kingdom of God. There can be a powerful people raised up who also know such wisdom that it cannot be contradicted.

We need apologists, people who can help people think. Too often we close our minds to the gospel unreasonably. We need to break through that in a fresh way. In some ways this whole section of Terry's talk reminded me of my post on “I Don't Want Balance, I Want It All.”

Terry introduced Mark by mentioning his currently available books, all of which he highly recommended. You can buy these from the Newfrontiers resources page. It was nice to see my pastor, Tope Koleoso, on the stage praying for Mark just before he began preaching. It was interesting that just a couple of weeks ago Tope also spoke on being missional in a talk that was impacting to me.

In case anyone hasn’t been reading blogs for the past two years, Mark Driscoll founded Mars Hill Church in Seattle in 1996. It has grown to over 6,000 people. He co-founded and is President of the Acts 29 Church Planting Network, which has planted over 100 churches in the USA and internationally. Most recently he founded and leads the Resurgence Missional Theology Cooperative. The Church Report has recognized Mark as the 22nd most influential pastor in America. His sermons are downloaded more than a million times a year. Mark is married to Grace and they enjoy raising their three sons and two daughters.

More posts from this conference can be found on my TOAM08 label page. You can download the mp3 of Mark's talk or listen to it right here:


Driscoll began by speaking of being brought up in a nominal Catholic family. Then his mother was saved in the Catholic charismatic movement, so spoke in tongues to Mary! Later on he started going out with a pastor’s daughter, and as a result became a Christian. He explained, “If you are a Calvinist, God saved me; if you are an Arminian, I gave my life to the Lord.” He then spoke about how God audibly spoke to him, “Marry the woman, plant churches, preach the Bible, and train men.”

He explained that in Seattle there are more dogs than kids. Now eleven years into having started Mars Hill Church, they are in the top thirty fastest growing churches in the USA, are seeing many saved, and run a multi-campus church with seventeen services in seven locations. He plans to stay in Seattle for the rest of his life.

Driscoll then humbly explained that through his experiences here in Brighton he wants to learn from those of us in Newfrontiers. He is appreciative for the love of the Spirit and the passion for worship he has seen here. He was not afraid to say that he is also here to serve and build on our movement and contribute something to us. He stated up front that he felt that the particular thing he could contribute was to help us become more precise as missionaries. I found that phrase to be an intriguing one, but he didn't explain it immediately.

Rather, he began to explain that while he himself clearly holds a charismatic theology and prays for the sick and demonized, he has a number of concerns about charismatics in general. He has often described himself as a “charismatic with a seat belt.”

Having looked at charismatic movements, he listed five problems he has with them, and boldly stated that he believed that we in Newfrontiers have avoided four of the five. He warned us to brace ourselves because some friendly words of rebuke were coming. At that point you certainly wanted to pay attention! As he listed his “problems” and explained them—and as nice as he was when he told us he thought we were okay on them—we braced ourselves for the blows we knew were coming!

MARK DRISCOLL’S PROBLEMS WITH CHARISMATICS

Sometimes charismatics focus on the wrong person. The Spirit’s objective is to teach us to love Jesus. He feels from his observation of Newfrontiers that we as a movement have avoided this common error of an over-focus on the Spirit to the exclusion of Jesus.

Sometimes charismatics focus on the wrong event. He explained that for many charismatics, Pentecost is their primary focus. But Pentecost was not the primary moment—it pointed back to the death and resurrection of Jesus. The cross was not just the prelude to the so-called “main event” of the coming of the Spirit. You only rightly appreciate Pentecost when you see it as the application of the cross. Driscoll also believed we in Newfrontiers have avoided that error and are cross-centered.

Some who love the Spirit have been corrupted by the view that it is all about prosperity. Driscoll commended Newfrontiers for being a Bible-loving people, and that we have not given way to the “health and wealth” teaching. Driscoll’s big problem with such “word of faith” teaching is that it basically says if you have enough faith in Jesus you will not be like him. He was poor and suffering! Some say all Christians should be rich and healthy!

Sometimes charismatics focus on the wrong person as the definition of what it is to be Spirit-filled and Spirit-led. As a result, charismatic leaders are often held up as an example to follow. The person gets lifted up. What Driscoll appreciates about Terry Virgo is that he lifts up Jesus. As Mark would go on to explain, it is in the life of Jesus that we find the perfect example of how to be filled with the Spirit, not in some leader.

Sometimes charismatics are insufficiently missional. He feels this is a big danger, especially if the charismatic is wedded to reformed theology. The danger is that we can begin to say, “It’s all up to God.” I thought here about people who do nothing about sharing the gospel, but instead just wait for revival. This is the one he feels that we in Newfrontiers may not have completely avoided. We are committed to mission, but not quite. We have almost hit the bull’s eye, but not quite. He did not mean this as a criticism, but as a way to help us improve. We have planted a lot of churches, but we should be moving even more quickly. We should be planting more. We should be giving more money. What is lacking sometimes is how we connect to culture and reach out to cultures and plant churches.

ROLES OF THE HOLY SPIRIT FROM THE BOOKS OF LUKE AND ACTS

Mark made a strong case for Luke and Acts being a joint work which focuses on the work of the Spirit in the life of Christ and then in the Christian. It is striking how many times Luke reports on the work of the Spirit.

The structure behind Driscoll’s talk was to point out all the different things that the Holy Spirit does.

The Spirit fills people.
Luke 1 — “Filled with the Holy Spirit even from his mother's womb.” We are to be filled with the Spirit also, and to love the Spirit.

Spirit-filled ministry includes miracles.
The angel said to Mary, “The Holy Spirit will overshadow . . .” A virgin gives birth. The Spirit prepares the coming of Jesus, works in the ministry of Jesus, and continues to work in the Church.

Spirit-filled ministry includes prayer.
When Mary met Elizabeth it says that her baby was filled with the Spirit. “The baby leaped for joy.” Elizabeth then prays gratefully, and also blesses Mary.

Spirit-filled ministry includes prophecy.
Zechariah was Spirit-filled and prophesied. Later, when the shepherds were in the fields and the angel came, they were filled with fear, and good news came. The news was revealed to them. Here is a Savior, Christ the Lord—which actually means one who is anointed by God the Holy Spirit. When Jesus was brought to the temple as a baby, more prophetic revelation came.

One of the ministries of Jesus is to baptize us with the Holy Spirit and fire for mission.
Luke 3:15 — “Baptize with the Holy Spirit.” There was also a division that came. Jesus inspires wonder and worship and also opposition. When the Spirit is in your midst, there is conflict and division. There are seasons of conflict. People get blown away.

At Jesus’ baptism the heavens opened and the Spirit descended on him like a dove. This is one of the clearest pictures of the Trinity in the entire Bible. God speaks from heaven to his Son, and the Spirit comes visibly and publicly. There is a clear demonstration to the public that the Spirit had anointed him. In Acts, the Spirit descends on the Church publicly to anoint the Church in much the same way as he anointed Jesus.

BUT . . .WHY WOULD JESUS NEED ANOINTING?

We must remember how Jesus came. He came in carnal flesh! In meat. The omnipresent came to a place. He who was without beginning and end was born of a woman. There is a great debate about how we are to see Jesus. Hypostatic union — Jesus one person, two natures — fully God, fully man. He did what only God could do.

God doesn't grow and learn, but as a man Jesus did grow and learn. The God who doesn't change changed physically. How could God become a man? Jesus didn't lose or dilute his divinity. Rather he added to it his humanity.

Christians tend to see Jesus as a little more human or a little more divine. The first are liberals. The second don't believe that Jesus was really tempted, or that he truly suffered. Jesus was like Superman, they say — like a Galilean peasant on the outside, but on the inside indestructible.

How did Jesus live his life? How did he resist sin? How did he love his enemies? How did he live for three years with Judas Iscariot? How did Jesus go to the cross and say, “Father forgive them”?

Some just say he was God. But Jesus was and is fully God, and while on the earth he was indeed still fully God. But he didn't live a life that we cannot imitate. Jesus wasn't faking it when he suffered. He was like us and tempted in the same way we are.

Philippians 2:5-11. He laid aside his rights. He emptied himself, became a slave. He was still God, but set aside the rights of divinity. He deserved to be worshipped and was scorned, he deserved to be praised and was mocked. He laid aside the continual use of his divine attributes, not the actual attributes themselves. He chose to learn, he chose to be tempted. He did use the divine attributes from time to time, e.g. to forgive sin. He didn't use them all the time.

How then did he do it? How did he live his life? He did it by the power of the Holy Spirit. That’s why we see the Spirit coming on him and resting on him, to enable him to live his life on earth. He was the second Adam. How did he say "no" to sin? By the power of the Spirit. How did he obey? How did he heal? How did he cast out demons? It was all by the power of the Holy Spirit. He was Spirit-filled, spirit-anointed and Spirit-led. What does it mean to be a charismatic? It means to be like Jesus! Most of the creeds miss out on his life. They say he was born and he died. What else did he do? We must focus on what is missing in the creeds—the Spirit-filled and anointed life of Jesus.

Let’s apply this to missiology. Jesus lived in heaven and came to earth — that’s a missionary. He lived in heaven in a culture of no sin where God was honored. He came to a culture which was rebellious and sinful. We tend to overlook the fact that Jesus was a missionary. The Spirit loves to empower those who are on a mission. Not just so we can pray better, worship louder, give more generously, but that we will be better missionaries to expand the knowledge of God to the ends of the earth. To be Spirit-filled and Spirit-led is to be missional because Jesus was!

[At this point, Mark returned to describing for us all the various things the Holy Spirit does.]

The Spirit leads us sometimes into hardship, testing, and temptation.
Luke 4 — Jesus—full of the Holy Spirit. He was led from the Jordan into the wilderness. He was led by the Spirit to the devil!

We are led to active ministry, and to contemplative ministry. Connect to God before you go to serve him. Anointing leads to silence, solitude, prayer, and contemplation, as well as testing, temptation, and fasting. He tests our character and prepares us. If you go through such a time, remember the same thing happened to Jesus.

Don't be always doing, but never being. Jesus was tempted and tested, and because he resisted sin, it was confirmed that he was prepared for ministry.

Spirit-anointed ministry includes preaching.
Luke 4:14 — Silence precedes speech and contemplation precedes action. Spirit-filled preaching does not come without periods of silence, prayer, and fasting. The power of the Spirit is needed to preach.

Luke 4:17 — Spirit is still anointing him to do the work. He was anointed to proclaim liberty.

Spirit-anointed ministry includes justice for the poor.

Spirit-filled ministry includes joy in God.
Luke 10:21 — Jesus rejoiced in the Holy Spirit. Driscoll feels this is something we in Newfrontiers can give to him. He says that he has a tendency to emphasize the negative, to see sin, to identify errors, to see what mistakes are being made. What he experienced in worship here reminded him of that verse about how Jesus rejoiced in the Holy Spirit. That is what we were doing here in the worship times. [Driscoll seemed to have been quite affected by our worship time.]

We can rejoice in God when we still see the suffering of this world, but beyond it we see God. We can weep or we can sing and dance and clap in the Spirit. Jesus saw the grace of God in children and enjoyed their company.

The Spirit is given to us by the Father.
Jesus said in a parable that if you know how to give good gifts, the Father will give the Spirit to those who ask. If you like to live a life like mine, says Jesus, you better ask my Father for the Holy Spirit. The power of the Spirit makes the Christian life possible. We need to continually ask the Father for more of the Spirit so we can learn well, suffer well, serve well, and die well.

The Spirit teaches us what to say. (Luke 12:11)
He enables us to speak to people. He helps us to speak in such a way that there is no explanation for the results apart from his power.

In the book of Acts, Luke continues with what Jesus did. He died for our sins, rose for our justification, conquered Satan. You would think that was enough and that he had done it all. Acts records the rest. Acts 1 says what Jesus did was THROUGH the Holy Spirit. Having seen what Jesus did through the Spirit, Luke introduces us to the idea that the same Spirit could come on the disciples so they could do the same things.

Power is needed to do ministry properly. This power is given so we can be missionaries. How do you know someone has the Holy Spirit? It’s because they are on a mission.

We are on a mission. In Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and to the ends of the earth. Start where you are. We can’t just go across the world. We need to go across the street. It’s easy to pray for the ends of the earth and neglect the ends of the street. How is your witness in Jerusalem? Do you KNOW people in your road? In your workplace? Is Jesus visible? If you are good witnesses in Jerusalem you will never be lacking for church planters. You harvest church planters in your church, in your neighborhood, in your street.

Jesus ascended into heaven where he had come from. You can imagine they would want to tell the world straight away, “Jesus is alive; he has conquered sin and death.” But they had to WAIT. Some of us have to wait. It’s not yet time. Imagine that—they sit on this news for weeks! It is an astonishing thing that even though their message was so wonderful, they were not allowed to proclaim it until they had been filled with the Holy Spirit.

Charismatics have Acts 2 on the fridge. We all know this one! Sounds like a mighty rushing wind.

Jesus was a missionary. The Church is to be a missionary, too. A Spirit-anointed Jesus anointed the Church. He wants us to do the works of Jesus. We must connect Acts with Luke. We are to be enabled and empowered to live a life like Jesus—a life fill of authority and mission.

The Spirit anoints so that the gospel can be communicated in every language, tongue, and dialect so that the vision of Revelation can come true!

Spirit-filled ministry results in repentance.
Brothers, what shall we do? Repentance is one of the greatest evidences of the work of the Spirit within us. Many today preach encouragement—try harder, do better. But we must preach repentance. Preaching repentance is only fitting for those who practice repentance. We may practice worldly sorrow, but it doesn't rock us to the depths and compel us to change. We have our back to God and our face towards sin. Repentance puts our face towards God and our back to sin.

Spirit-filled ministry brings conversion.
The verse continues, “Be baptized and you will receive the Spirit. That day there were added to the church 3,000 souls.” Many today are not interested in true conversion. It’s about passing from death to life. We need the power of the Spirit to lead to repentance and conversion.

Spirit-filled ministry brings devotion to one another and awe towards God.
Acts 2 — Awe, prayer, food, fellowship. Jesus is alive! Are you in awe of that? All our sins are forgiven! Are you in awe of that?

We are part of the ministry of Jesus doing anointed work by the power of the Spirit — the same one who raised Jesus from the dead! Do you have a sense of awe? We don't deserve ministry. We need awe in it. Don't lose your sense of awe. That is the way Judas Iscariot became what he did.

We also need a sense of gratefulness that the Spirit has regenerated us and enabled and gifted us. Absolute wonder. We get to be a part of it!

We must not resist, quench, or grieve the Holy Spirit.

The Church was birthed by the power and ministry of the Holy Spirit. The Lord added daily those being saved. What constitutes a church? Define what it is and does. You don't want to lose your faithfulness. It's not just Word and sacrament. Rather it is the work of the Holy Spirit. Without the Holy Spirit the Church does not exist.

EIGHT MARKS OF THE CHURCH IN ACTS

Community of regenerated believers. You are not a part of the Church if you are not a Christian! Jesus died for us, but the Spirit must regenerate us and cause us to be reborn. 2 Corinthians 5:21. Imputation goes both ways. The great exchange—the doctrine of justification. N. T. Wright gets the resurrection right and the cross wrong! Fight the war for justification, BUT don't neglect regeneration! Regeneration is that God gives us a new heart. A new creation. My new life as a missionary on the earth. Heart of stone gone, flesh given. Sin nature gone, new nature given. Life patterned after life of Jesus.

The heart is the center of everything—so a new heart means a new identity, a new passion, new gifts, a new purpose, new power, new desires. I get to live a whole new life. LEGALISM tells us that we HAVE TO DO things; the gospel tells us we GET TO DO things. “I want to serve God; I want to pray; I want to read my Bible; I want to learn humility; I don't want to be ashamed, I want him to say “Well done”; I want to enter into my rest. Living for our strongest desires, not merely to "not sin." It’s not merely to avoid the bad things, but to love God. It is the Spirit that delivers us and gives us new desires to love God and to do good. Temptations come, but our deepest desire should be for God and the things of God. Joyful, meaningful, purposeful life that never ends, but continues in his presence!

Mark didn't get a chance to cover all of the marks of the Church in Acts, but implied he would look at them later. He briefly mentioned them. The Church:

1. Is Organized
   
2. Is gathered
   
3. Observes the sacraments
   
4. Is unified
   
5. Is scattered as missionaries
   
6. Gives God glory
   
7. Experiences joy

Holy Spirit longs, desires, wills to anoint us for the glory of Jesus—to live like him, for him, and to him as a missionary to the ends of the earth!

Driscoll prayed for us as a movement and asked God to take our appreciation for the Bible and love for Jesus and unite within us fervent desires to live a life like Jesus, with Jesus, and FOR Jesus! He thanked God who sent the Son as an example, sent the Spirit as an enabler, and sent US to the world. He wanted us to be Spirit-filled, Spirit-led, justified, regenerated, spirit-compelled. He said our goal of 1,000 churches is too small! And that there were many nations where church plants were to be accomplished.

Jesus has a passion for the earth that he made!
We are to love Jesus because he first loved us, and to love the world because we love Jesus.

Well . . . I’m here! And the Brighton conference has begun. The sense of anticipation and excitement is incredible. Joyful reunions of friends who have been on separate continents are happening everywhere. We are really a family. We are really on a mission.

At the beginning of the week, I would ask that you pray for me. It is a busy week for me with typing, interviewing, and, of course, just meeting friends. My jet lag is improving quickly. I was also determined this year, more than usual, to press into God in the worship time. Sometimes when live-blogging, it's possible to feel a bit detached from the goings on just because you’re typing away. Please pray for me about that.

Also, please pray for my long-suffering wife, Andrée, who I have left at home with our five children. May God carry her and give her real grace as what she is doing is more important than what I am doing. No one is going to die if I mistype a word here! I am already missing her and looking forward to seeing her again at the end of the week.

Right from the start I wanted to ensure I focused on God. Sitting near the front, and being intentional about it, I certainly found myself carried into an awareness of the presence of God by the thousands in the room, the worship band, and the wonderful words of the songs. We learned a great new song. It began, “His name is Jesus, Risen Savior” and was a triumphant celebration of the death and resurrection of our Savior. The song is from Lou Fellingham's new album, which can also be bought as mp3 downloads. Vibrant is not a strong enough word to describe the feel of this worship time.

As Nigel Ring prepared to introduce our first speaker, he told us that 20 per cent of the world’s nations are represented at this conference. He read out the name of each country, and there was a corresponding “whoop” after each nation was mentioned. There are 52 nations in attendance:

Albania, Armenia, Australia, Bangladesh, Belgium, Bolivia, Brazil
Cambodia, Canada, Cyprus, Denmark, Ethiopia, France
Germany, Ghana, Guinea, India, Ireland, Israel, Japan, Kenya, Latvia
Lesotho, Mexico, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nigeria
Nigeria, Oman, Pakistan, Peru, Philippines, Portugal, Romania, Russia
Serbia, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Tajikistan, Turkey
Uganda, Channel Islands, England, Isle of Man, Northern Ireland
Scotland, Wales, Ukraine, UAE, USA, Zambia, Zimbabwe
The preacher this afternoon was Stephen Van Rhyn. Stephen is the lead elder of Jubilee Community Church in Cape Town, South Africa. He is married to Anna and has two young boys, Josh and Ben, and one daughter, Bethany.

Stephen directed us to Daniel 1 and read the entire chapter for us. He entitled his talk Prevailing Under Pressure. You can download the mp3 of his talk or listen to it here:

More posts from this conference can be found on my TOAM08 label page.

Stephen set the scene by explaining the terrible trauma experienced by the Jews in being exiled. What was worse, these events were not random. They had been determined by their God who had saved them, and had now judged them. Their sin was to make God surplus to requirements. They had been warned not to reject him. They had been wooed.

Galatians 6:7-8 warns us that God cannot be mocked. Persistent rebellion against God will not go unpunished. God is faithful to all his promises, including the promise to punish the disobedient. This might seem discouraging, but because of what it shows us, we can be encouraged.

1. GOD IS IN CONTROL
   
   

   He is sovereign. By verse 4, it is no longer Nebuchadnezzar who had carried them off into captivity; rather GOD claims that HE had done it. There is an historically correct perspective, but the destiny of the people of God is in the hands of God.
   
   We see in Daniel changing kings and an unchanging God. We meet superpower kings who come and go, but our God goes on forever! He is the one true King. Our God is the author of human history. In the midst of international dangers and everything else that is going on, we must hear that OUR GOD REIGNS.
   
   When we know that God reigns, we not only survive difficulties, we prevail. He is also sovereign over the very details of our lives. Verse 9—God causes an official to show favor. Verse 17—God gave knowledge and understanding. There is no area outside of God’s control.
   
   We all have challenges. We bring our own challenges and other people’s with us. But because God is in control and wants to give us hope and a future, we can be bold. Our confidence is that he is in charge. This is HIS world, and he cares about it. Jesus is ruling and reigning FOR his Church (Ephesians 1).
   
   God has an eternal purpose—to glorify his Son through his Church. He has a unique plan for each of us that fits in with that bigger plan. Our prayer meetings and our missions will be different if we really appreciate that God is in charge.
   
   

2. GOD IS A REDEEMER
   
   

   Even in the midst of punishment we see the mercy of God. “Young man, no defects, etc.”—that’s the list of requirements for the average Christian woman looking for a husband today!
   
   The key leaders were brought to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar, but God had a plan. God sent a group ahead so that there was grace to the people of God. They lived for God in the midst of the culture without compromise. Daniel is part of praying in the promise of God to send the people back.
   
   Before God disciplines a hard-hearted and rebellious people, he is already working on the solution! He sends a group on to be part of the redeeming purpose before he even punishes. God is more gracious than we are.
   
   For example, in Ruth, while Naomi is ranting against God, he is preparing her redemption. We serve a Redeemer. If we think our life is a mess, God can fix it.
   
   

3. GOD WANTS US IN THE WORLD, BUT NOT OF THE WORLD
   
   

   Daniel is deported and bombarded by this alien culture. Was he to avoid it? Was he to resist it? Was he to protest? Was he to assimilate?

   “It is comparatively easy to be faithful if we don't care about being contemporary. It is also easy to be contemporary if you don't care about being faithful. It is the search for the combination of truth and relevance which is exacting.”
   
   — John Stott

   How can we reach out without selling out? How can we be faithful and relevant?
   
   On external things, Daniel was flexible. He studied a foreign language. He changed his name. On the internal issue of his walk with God, he was inflexible.
   
   Daniel resolved not to defile himself. For Daniel, it wasn't really eating the food or wine, but rather because the food had been offered to idols. He demonstrated incredible courage. After all, you didn't want to offend Nebuchadnezzar!
   
   Daniel says it like it is. He doesn't want to defile himself. This is real moral integrity. It is theological integrity also (see verse 17). Daniel had a great intellect. He had great gifting and ability naturally. He was also anointed. But Daniel demonstrated integrity by not trusting his ability, or even the amplification of his ability. Daniel humbly embraced the gifts. It was not Daniel's brilliance that won the day, but rather the intervention of God. (Daniel 2:27-28) Daniel gave God the credit.
   
   He also demonstrated spiritual integrity by guarding his relationship with God with his life. He was in it for the long haul. In Daniel 6, they could not find anything to pin on him. They knew that if they banned prayer, Daniel would still pray. He wouldn't stop his communion with God.
   
   Daniel shows us a panoramic picture of a sovereign God. He remained faithful, committed to the purposes of God. Compromise is not inevitable. Not everyone has a price. Daniel did not cave in. People who pursue God will make a difference.
   
   

   “Those who honor me, I will honor.” 1 Samuel 2:30
   

   Eric Liddell was faithful to God, not only because he would not run on the Sabbath—he relocated to China to preach the gospel. During the war he was in a prisoner of war camp. Churchill arranged a prisoner exchange, but he decided to give his prisoner exchange to a pregnant woman who was in the camp. He died so someone else could live.
   
   You can live your life for God. You don't have to give in.

More posts from this conference can be found on my TOAM08 label page.

Begining tomorrow I will be live-blogging the Newfrontiers conference, Together On A Mission. (I will shorten this to TOAM.)

My posts will all be found on my TOAM08 label page.

You can download the mp3s of this week's talks by subscribing to the new Newfrontiers podcast, which will be an easy way for you to get access to the mp3s for free.

Newfrontiers is a family of reformed charismatic churches that began in England and now reaches into many nations. Last year we had 53 nations represented in Brighton; maybe this year it will be more. My live-blogging from TOAM07 and TOAM06 is also available.

The main visiting speaker this year is Mark Driscoll. I have a number of posts about him, including notes of sermons and an e-mail interview.

If you are interested in finding out more about Newfrontiers, the following interviews with leaders in Newfrontiers are helpful, some of which were carried out at New Word Alive. There is also a comprehensive Newfrontiers website.

TERRY VIRGO — Leader and founder of Newfrontiers

• Written report of an interview at Jubilee Church
  
  
• Video and transcript of an interview at New Word Alive 2008
  

STUART TOWNEND — Co-writer with Keith Getty of the hymn "In Christ Alone"

• Report and mp3 of an interview at New Word Alive 2008

JOHN LANFERMAN — Leader, Newfrontiers USA

• Transcript and mp3 of an interview at TOAM07

NATHAN FELLINGHAM — Songwriter and member of Phatfish

• Transcript and mp3 of an interview at New Word Alive 2008

This concludes my interview with Terry and Wendy Virgo. Today Terry provides insight into why he decided to work together with the New Word Alive conference. He also tells us how he chooses who to work with, and in particular, what led him to invite Mark Driscoll to the Brighton Conference, which will begin on July 8th. (I will be live-blogging the conference.) The video of this segment of the interview can be viewed here.

The two previous segments of this interview with Terry and Wendy can be read at these pages:

• Terry and Wendy Virgo at New Word Alive
  
  
• Terry and Wendy Virgo on Itinerant Ministry

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Adrian
I can see from what you’re saying just how incredibly busy you must personally be overseeing all this. It just kind of brings me back to the fact that, yeah, you’re taking time out from your busy schedules to come here, so you must feel that this conference is pretty important and pretty crucial for, I guess, those outside of Newfrontiers. There aren’t that many Newfrontiers people here. Why would you come here? What’s so important about this specific conference this week?

Terry
I truly believe God wants to bring together a people who love Scripture, people who would flock to hear someone like Don Carson or John Piper, people who really regard Scripture highly.

Adrian
Very good. So, how do you determine, then, who you’re going to work with and who you’re not. Obviously you’re happy to work with these guys, and without going to names, I guess there must be others in UK that you’re not happy to work with. How do you determine that?

Terry
Most of my life has to be lived working out my commitment to Newfrontiers. That is where my loyalty lies. That’s where my duty lies. These are people who are expecting me to serve them, and I’m very happy to serve them. I’ve always felt that God said, “Now always keep a door open to the broader body of Christ. Don’t get shut in.” So for decades now, we’ve always had some involvement. So I get invitations and I have to choose here and there whether I will go. And this seemed a really brilliant place to come. I was honored to be invited, especially with a Carson and Piper here. So, yeah, I count it a huge privilege to be here. Also being a fairly substantial sizable conference, it means one can reach many people in a short time. After I spoke at the UCCF Forum, I had dozens, I think it would be true to say, letters from Christian Unions saying would I please come and speak at their CU. Well, I can’t do that. I can’t be driving all over England, speaking in CU meetings. But I can speak to a couple thousand students here in one week, so this is a really good economy of time, as well as an enjoyable thing to do.

Adrian
Okay. So I know, as an example, you’ve chosen to invite Mark Driscoll to the Brighton Conference this year. And in the past you’ve chosen various people who some people, I think, were surprised about. How do you go about choosing them, and specifically Mark. What made you choose Mark for this year’s Brighton Conference?

Terry
I’ve been listening to Mark Driscoll over the last year or so, I guess. I’m deeply impressed with his biblical stance. I think he’s an unusually powerful preacher. He is also bitingly relevant to our generation and aware of the culture in which we live. I think he’s very unusual. He’s not only fighting for the truth in some sort of static way of just defining the doctrine. He reminds me of a kind of latter day Spurgeon. He’s very clear on doctrine. He’s very evangelistic, building a great church, it sounds, helping to plant churches in Acts 29—again like Spurgeon, who helped to get churches started all around London. You hear about people in Australia who were reading his sermons a week or so after he preached them in London as they printed them and sent them round the world. And now Driscoll’s been downloaded all over the world. He’s an unusual guy, very robust, like Spurgeon was, out of step somewhat, even with his group. But I love what I hear. I’ve yet to meet him, but I love what I hear.

Adrian
Great. Excellent. Well, we’ll look forward to another big conference in July. It seems like there’s conference after conference, doesn’t it? It’s great, I guess, to have people gathering round God’s Word and learning stuff. I mean, that’s what I find anyway. I like conferences because you keep going . . .

Terry
I think I love the local church the most, and I know that would be true of you.

Adrian
Yes!

Terry
That’s where we work out our lives. That’s where we grow. We can’t build our lives on conferences. But we have been associated with some very big ones over the years and know the huge impact, so I certainly don�